Girl guiding

[nevernotstruggling]

I've just had an email about the new inclusivity and diversify and blah plan. Is it different?

[KatieAlcock]

I'm supposed to be working but I am back in my office again and my computer wants to install every known package in the world, so I'm just popping on to say I'm going to be on Glinner's The Mess We're In today:

www.youtube.com/c/GrahamLinehan/videos

See you later!

[MrsFin]

There is no way Guide leaders who disagree with this policy can speak out- if we do we run the risk of being sacked from Guiding and, if you work in the wrong sectors such as the civil service, being sacked from your job as well.

A mass sacking of Guiding Leaders would be great publicity wouldn't it? 😊
Though not necessarily the kind of publicity GG would want.

[averylongtimeago]

@MrsFin

There is no way Guide leaders who disagree with this policy can speak out- if we do we run the risk of being sacked from Guiding and, if you work in the wrong sectors such as the civil service, being sacked from your job as well.

A mass sacking of Guiding Leaders would be great publicity wouldn't it? 😊
Though not necessarily the kind of publicity GG would want.

Would you risk your job, your salary, your mortgage to speak out?
For your hobby?

Some brave women have - and it's not been easy for them.

This is bullying from GGHQ, nothing less.

[Beamur]

I think this being on Facebook probably is giving this a great deal more public profile than it had before for GG. It's being seen by a much wider demographic.
There are some wise and measured comments being made and one can only hope that GG do take a moment to reflect and consider if they do need to change anything else to be both inclusive and a same place for women and girls.
GG is at heart not one of the baddies. I do believe that they are trying very hard to do the right thing.
It's rather sad seeing experienced retired or former Leaders being spoken to in such dismissive terms by some posters though.

[Beamur]

Although, to the above I would add that the attitude being displayed to members expressing concerns is not exactly exemplary...

[EndTable]

I'm an ex-unit helper at Brownies. I left quietly a few months before Covid after reading about what happened to Helen Watts and Katie Alcock. I couldn't square my safeguarding responsibilities as a teacher with GG's policy and don't want to be part of an organisation that treats volunteers with such contempt for speaking up about safeguarding issues.

I told our district commissioner why, but have no idea if she fed it back to HQ.

[Leafstamp]

A Twitter poster has said the following - bluntly put, but sadly true:

’You are one rape away from being sued‘

twitter.com/Girlguiding/status/1394674230076354564

A very sad state of affairs.

[misscockerspaniel]

Have we travelled back to the seventies?

No, way further back than that. The trans movement is the modern take on colonialism.

[SavingsQuestions]

They've really lost their way. This isnt a mistake or misguided - its full on policy as they are declaring today on twitter/facebook. And those who disagree are not allowes to voice their opinions. Teuly terrifying.

[SavingsQuestions]

They won't be taking on board any facebook/twitter responses as their world view sees GC akin to racism etc that is irrelevant to them.

[StreetCountdown]

I have had to renew my safe guarding training recently, and fed a lot back to HQ about the unlawfulness of their trans inclusion policy, as well as pointing out that it is impossible to apply in the day to day. Eg, how are you supposed to deal with the gender fluid? They have not responded.

There is a complete disconnect between HQ and ground roots, and they simply don't seem to care that units are closing down in droves. Sending out ads for new leaders is all well and good, but what are they doing to support existing leaders? When they issue threats in response to legitimate concerns, like the one cited above, it just reeks of contempt.

Covid has devastated guiding where I live, but it wasn't great beforehand, and it's not for lack of demand, the waiting lists are long. The new programme is bloody hard work, to prepare and sometimes to fund, as well as being dull and unwieldy. None of the girls have much in the way of appetite/support/resources/time to get their Interest Badges (the bit they have to do at home), so they cannot progress in the award system. The hours we have to put in to cover the theme awards in meetings leaves little time for the fun, "traditional" stuff, which is what guiding should be about. Their paperwork demands are ridiculous, their online system is total crap, their forms don't work properly. My unit kept going over lockdown, but we got no help or encouragement from our district - not even an email to ask how we were doing.

The only reason I am carrying on is because of guilt/obligation to the girls and people locally who helped train me. The moment they try to foist a "trans girl" onto me, I will be done.

[ethelredonagoodday]

@StreetCountdown

I have had to renew my safe guarding training recently, and fed a lot back to HQ about the unlawfulness of their trans inclusion policy, as well as pointing out that it is impossible to apply in the day to day. Eg, how are you supposed to deal with the gender fluid? They have not responded.

There is a complete disconnect between HQ and ground roots, and they simply don't seem to care that units are closing down in droves. Sending out ads for new leaders is all well and good, but what are they doing to support existing leaders? When they issue threats in response to legitimate concerns, like the one cited above, it just reeks of contempt.

Covid has devastated guiding where I live, but it wasn't great beforehand, and it's not for lack of demand, the waiting lists are long. The new programme is bloody hard work, to prepare and sometimes to fund, as well as being dull and unwieldy. None of the girls have much in the way of appetite/support/resources/time to get their Interest Badges (the bit they have to do at home), so they cannot progress in the award system. The hours we have to put in to cover the theme awards in meetings leaves little time for the fun, "traditional" stuff, which is what guiding should be about. Their paperwork demands are ridiculous, their online system is total crap, their forms don't work properly. My unit kept going over lockdown, but we got no help or encouragement from our district - not even an email to ask how we were doing.

The only reason I am carrying on is because of guilt/obligation to the girls and people locally who helped train me. The moment they try to foist a "trans girl" onto me, I will be done.

The fact that they haven't responded is very telling.

My DD is a guide having attended right through from rainbows. She doesn't go to guides for social policy advice, she goes to do fun activities!

It was noticeable on that Fb thread that of those people who were saying TWAW, many who were challenged with actual facts in response to comments such as TW being the most oppressed minority, then shuffled off with a 'let's agree to disagree/be kind' response. My hope is that if even one of them goes away and reads more around this, then that's one more person fighting for the rights of girls and women.

[carolinesbaby]

The moment they try to foist a "trans girl" onto me, I will be done.

Sadly it won't be long. Where I live I feel a bit removed as we are a long way from any cities, in a very conservative (small c and big C!) area, but I have learned this week that there is a member of the county team who has a trans child. It's coming and I am very sad because it will be the end of Guiding for me, after over 35 years involved.

[MrsFin]

Would you risk your job, your salary, your mortgage to speak out?
For your hobby?

Probably not, but there will surely be an awful lot of Guiders who are not in that position.

I did speak out. I was a District, then Division Commissioner, as well as being a Leader. I was given a written warning for something I put on FB in support of Katie Alcock.

I resigned at that point, and made it clear it was because I wasn't prepared to approve residential events that were unable to be called out as mixed sex. I didn't want my name on a form for an event where a girl gets abused.

[andyoldlabour]

Just had a look at the FB page. The top two posts by them are on this subject and there is a lot of pushback. People speaking against their policy are definiely in the majority.

[SavingsQuestions]

I think they are relieved when those who go against their policy resign tbh. Its their ideology over and above what the guiding movement does. People making policy - with no concern for girls on the ground or the units closing. People flown in I assume, with no love for guiding like those who have worked through the ranks. :(

[carolinesbaby]

@SavingsQuestions

I think they are relieved when those who go against their policy resign tbh. Its their ideology over and above what the guiding movement does. People making policy - with no concern for girls on the ground or the units closing. People flown in I assume, with no love for guiding like those who have worked through the ranks. :(

Exactly. The only people who would miss me if I resigned would be the girls in my units, who are the ones I do it for, so I'll stay for now.

[TedImgoingmad]

Katie Alcock is live now on The Mess We're In

[KatieAlcock]

I've had complaints against me at work, too, mainly for my "public understanding of science" type posts or signing letters rather than anything directly related to Guiding (I think the students complaining would know they'd get short shrift; the Press Office know it's happening and also know it's not within their remit).
When I started my case, my husband and I sat down and discussed whether there would be financial implications. I'm in a permanent position, I report on science that other people have published and that's peer reviewed, but this is an expensive case and we know we can't afford to lose our home. So it was a serious discussion. Other academics or younger professionals/Guiders won't be in such a secure position financially or personally.

Anyway I'm off to EAT OUT with the DCs, and I will have a look at the comments on the YouTube later (you can't see them while you are doing it).

[averylongtimeago]

Enjoy you meal out! I'll watch the video later.

[twelly]

I suspect lots of guiders will give up their packs. Guides, Brownies and Rainbows should be a safe girl space I do not agree with the policy of allowing boys to join

[IntoAir]

I think maybe a lot of women don't realise the exhilaration & freedom of a single-sex women/girls space. No boys' egos to deal with ...

[LouLou198]

Many leaders like myself have worked tirelessly through lockdown to keep our units going virtually. Many of us in my district work for the NHS, and to be honest spending hours adapting activities and sitting on zoom has been the last thing I've wanted to do after a stressful day at work. It does feel like a kick in the teeth to receive an email to say we are "unwelcoming".
I really think they need to focus on more important issues, membership has dropped significantly this year. Many units are now in financial difficulty, and are now finding due to Covid restrictions they have no meeting place.

[KatieAlcock]

I was only doing home learning plus a job but I have to say I wasn't too upset I wasn't trying to do Zoom meetings.

[SlipperyLizard]

I’m tempted to email Guides to refer them to the Uni of Essex report (given that Stonewall wrote their trans inclusion policy). If I do it in my name, will there be any comeback for my girls? As a PP said, there’s so little for non-sporty girls to do outside of school.

@Reachersloveinterest I also thought this wouldn’t be an issue in my small town, until I saw the boy in my DD’s Guides unit.

Interestingly, the unit the boy attends appears to have no permanent leader, and most (all?) of the girls who attend brownies on the same night (who would usually move up to that Guides) seem to move up to a different evening.