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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Law Student Faces Disciplinary Action - Abertay Uni (Dundee)

273 replies

BuffysBigSister · 15/05/2021 06:40

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9581035/Law-student-29-said-women-vaginas-faces-disciplinary-action-university.html

I am hoping someone will be able to tell me this is a made up story because if it's not I totally despair. How did we end up here??

OP posts:
Oblomov21 · 15/05/2021 08:04

This is ridiculous. We don't seem to be able to make this stop. Frightening.

Ifyourefeelingsinister · 15/05/2021 08:04

@BuffysBigSister

What with these students and the guy on the LNER train, it feels like we're in East Germany with everyone informing on their neighbours to the Stasi.
This, exactly. I can't believe the university are actually considering disciplining her.
GCAcademic · 15/05/2021 08:05

Actually, given that this is Scotland, not sure that the OIA is an option and the student isn’t a consumer in the same way. Still, I think a counter-complaint is appropriate here.

LizzieSiddal · 15/05/2021 08:06

This is absolutely chilling. I hope she sues the university if this is taken any further, but I’m sick to death of women having to raise money for this nonsense!

nauticant · 15/05/2021 08:08

It will be interesting:

Ms Keogh, who is being supported by Joanna Cherry QC, the SNP MP for Edinburgh South West

EverythingWasGolden · 15/05/2021 08:12

Yeah I'm not a fan of the SNP at all, but Joanna Cherry QC is their one shining light.

I'm struggling to understand the dynamics of the debate group too. So there were 'feminists' who were talking shit about men, and another woman who may or may not consider herself a feminist, talking facts about women. And she's the one disciplined. Wtf Confused

Iamhangingin · 15/05/2021 08:15

I just read this in the Times. I'm so shocked. It seems an entirely sensible commentn to have made during a discussion, relevant to the topic. And this is the action taken?! Am I miss understanding the concept of "discussion'.?

nauticant · 15/05/2021 08:15

I'm guessing that apart from Keogh there was a seminar group of libfem TWAW female students and some lefty blokes who were over the moon to stick the boot in. Being egged on by a biased and unprofessional university staff member.

MoltenLasagne · 15/05/2021 08:19

Glad to hear she's being supported by Joanna Cherry. A mother of two who's retraining to become a lawyer and doesn't self-censor in line with expected orthodoxy is exactly the type of person we need to enter the law profession.

sunshineandhappy · 15/05/2021 08:20

@GCAcademic

It’s not just students. I’m aware of a situation where a member of academic staff is relentlessly pursuing a complaint against a student for articulating similar biological beliefs in a seminar. The manager who the complaint was made to is horrified and tried to get the academic to drop it, but they are insistent the student be investigated.
So presumably once the investigation is complete, if done correctly, it will be the academic that is disciplined for bullying
FindTheTruth · 15/05/2021 08:22

we can hope @sunshineandhappy we can hope

GCAcademic · 15/05/2021 08:22

So presumably once the investigation is complete, if done correctly, it will be the academic that is disciplined for bullying

Well, you would hope so, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.

crumpet · 15/05/2021 08:25

So pleased Joanna Cherry is supporting her.

Mumoftwoinprimary · 15/05/2021 08:28

I wonder what would happen if it was a biology student? Are they also not allowed to say such shocking things?

Sexnotgender · 15/05/2021 08:28

@crumpet

So pleased Joanna Cherry is supporting her.
That’s excellent news.

This whole thing is unbelievable. I’m furious.

sunshineandhappy · 15/05/2021 08:29

I have always been quietly feminist, maybe as a response to my mum who was a strident feminist in the 70's when she was a student, and It felt a bit overbearing with it. Although I now see why with the benefit of hindsight and the rights she was fighting for.
I now can feel myself becoming more and more vocal because it feels like we are becoming part of a society that is trying to erase all the things my mum fought for, but even worse, also the ability to point that out.

Babdoc · 15/05/2021 09:29

I’ve posted a comment on the Times article, suggesting that the staff at Abertay (an ex technical college) should pop across the city and ask the medical faculty at my alma mater - Dundee University- to explain the basic facts to them which show that Keogh was simply stating the truth!

CatChant · 15/05/2021 09:36

Unbelievable and chilling.

I hope Lord Lucas is reading that article. He takes a great interest in the issue of silencing discussion and debate in academia.

TheRealParsnip · 15/05/2021 09:48

Okay, this is crazy, can't we have any discussions nowadays? It's not like this woman directed some hate towards an actual person! What is now known as 'hate speech' is ridiculous too. People who don't hate anyone and wouldn't say "boo" to a goose are having their careers and families disrupted and ruined by this nonsense. Let us discuss.

StillFemale · 15/05/2021 09:49

Very disturbing all around especially that those who reported are the next generation of solicitors and lawyers

Nonmaquillee · 15/05/2021 09:57

@MoltenLasagne

Glad to hear she's being supported by Joanna Cherry. A mother of two who's retraining to become a lawyer and doesn't self-censor in line with expected orthodoxy is exactly the type of person we need to enter the law profession.
Couldn’t agree more. And as the Times article points out - these are potentially the lawyers of the future. “There are no mute buttons in court.”

Do they think that every case they deal with as lawyers will be “sanitised” so it’s in accordance with their own screwed-up ideologies?? Are they going to turn down working on cases if they don’t align with their own world view? Reminds me of the young members of staff who worked for JKR’s publishing company who refused to work with any “transphobic” writers. Just unbelievable.

MissBarbary · 15/05/2021 10:10

@Thecatonthemat

This seems to be framed as feminists who are behind the move to ban the student from speaking. This is so illogical, why would ”man hating feminists” be taking the position that women don’t have vaginas, or are not weaker generally , than men. I see something not right here. And so much for human rights when we can’t speak on certain subjects. In a live lecture she could not have been muted . Are all the student women? One of the articles implied that it was female students who were objecting?
I saw this in the Times. I assume the "man hating feminists" refer to those feminists who do believe all men are rapists.

That is often said on here although tempered (supposedly) by the qualification that all men have the potential to be rapists. Personally that seems like splitting hairs.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/05/2021 10:16

This is a related point, but I was really shocked when this article came out, but I then thought this coddling of feelings at university was more of an American thing. This article describes how some law students think they shouldn't have to learn about rape law, or even discuss it.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/trouble-teaching-rape-law

"Student organizations representing women’s interests now routinely advise students that they should not feel pressured to attend or participate in class sessions that focus on the law of sexual violence, and which might therefore be traumatic. These organizations also ask criminal-law teachers to warn their classes that the rape-law unit might “trigger” traumatic memories. Individual students often ask teachers not to include the law of rape on exams for fear that the material would cause them to perform less well. One teacher I know was recently asked by a student not to use the word “violate” in classas in “Does this conduct violate the law?”because the word was triggering. Some students have even suggested that rape law should not be taught because of its potential to cause distress"

Carriemac · 15/05/2021 10:17

Is there a fund raiser for this? Does she need support or is there anything we can do to help her?

ahagwearsapointybonnet · 15/05/2021 10:18

Yes, this is the really scary part IMO - these are law students, and the environment is being made such that potentially only people with the "right" views would be able to get a law degree - so the risk is that a few years down the line, it would be that much harder for people like Maya, Keira Bell, Harry Miller etc. to take their cases to court and especially to win them, due to the bias being baked into the system. So we must keep fighting the indoctrination taking place in these universities and institutions.

Sometimes I do think/hope though that this is all so nonsensical, surely it can't last. I have visions of some big event or series of events that would have the effect of the small child laughing - and suddenly everyone falling over themselves in embarrassment to say, of course, they were never fooled, they could see the emperor was naked all along, and rushing to disassociate themselves from the groups peddling this tripe.