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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Law Student Faces Disciplinary Action - Abertay Uni (Dundee)

273 replies

BuffysBigSister · 15/05/2021 06:40

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9581035/Law-student-29-said-women-vaginas-faces-disciplinary-action-university.html

I am hoping someone will be able to tell me this is a made up story because if it's not I totally despair. How did we end up here??

OP posts:
Nonmaquillee · 21/05/2021 12:17

I understand the point... but did people protest about, for example, the HCB? Was there discussion amongst the public about it? Because it genuinely flummoxes me that the Scottish parliament needed to have a discussion about whether a woman who had been raped was committing a hate crime in asking for a woman to perform any kind of physical examination on her.

Has SW been more successful in Scotland in capturing these institutions and if so, does anyone know why?

I’m genuinely interested.

QuiteGood · 21/05/2021 12:35

Abertay are insisting they aren’t taking action due to her views on what a woman is. Every article I have read, has them refuting this although they don’t say what the issue is centred around. I’m guessing they can’t, even if they want to. I heard Lisa interviewed on woman’s hours earlier this week and she sounded very sensible. However, I wouldn’t want to prejudge this situation. We don’t really know what has gone on and what the issues really are about. The university keeps insisting that the case has been inaccurately reported on. There has been a case relating to my son’s school on a different topical issue this week. It also made the news, after social media went wild with lots of judgement about the school’s actions. It turned out something very different had happened and the school had behaved appropriately.

SoMuchForSummerLove · 21/05/2021 12:44

@Nonmaquillee of course there was lots of protest and debate! I emailed every Scottish politician I could - there was a running thread on FWR at the time, and in Scotsnet.

I think what's happened here is that the ScotGov has begun to believe it's own hype, that it's somehow the more virtuous government, in stark contrast with the goings on at WM. This became a way to shine light on their vision for an open, more equitable Scotland - an idea I have sympathy for, but I disagree with how they're going about it.

Also, Nicola Sturgeon has felt compelled to go for the young vote, and shore up her support within her party, and this issue is how she has attracted them.

That's just my own guess from what I can see - and tbh I don't think Scotland's universities seem to be worse than in other countries, although the HCB has obviously made things much more precarious.

In a country of more than 5 million people, I think you'd be hard pressed to meet anyone who holds these views - although it'll increase in younger age groups, as it is the world over.

The SNP is claiming it's reflecting the views of Scottish society; in my view they're actually trying to create this kind of society, but the general population either doesn't care or actively disagrees with them. But for those who support independence they are the only game in town, and it becomes 'I'll vote for them until we get independence and then vote for someone else'. So that distorts or masks the underlying voter sentiment.

Nonmaquillee · 21/05/2021 13:12

Thank you for your reply, Summer. It’s really helpful.

SoMuchForSummerLove · 21/05/2021 13:23

Sure Smile It really is just my view, I'm sure others can see it from a different angle.

Grellbunt · 21/05/2021 14:24

To me Summer sums it up pretty well.

Sandra15 · 28/05/2021 12:39

@FindTheTruth

Keogh claims that she was muted by her lecturer in a video seminar when she raised concerns about a trans woman taking part in mixed martial arts bouts. “I made the point that this woman had testosterone in her body for 32 years and, as such, would be genetically stronger than your average woman,” she said.

she has a right to point this out. Women and girls are sustaining injuries in contact sports, including martial arts. A Transgender MMA Fighter beat her female opponent so severely that she suffered a broken skull... and the female opponent was NOT TOLD she would be facing a male born person in the fight beforehand. now this lecturer is continuing the tradition of DON"T TALK about it. SILENCE woman. facts are hateful, blah blah blah

Sharron Davies received all kinds of vile tweets when she pointed this out.
SoMuchForSummerLove · 29/05/2021 10:09

I got an email today inviting me to a webinar to find out more about doing a Masters at Abertay.

No thank you!!

Nonmaquillee · 29/05/2021 10:30

@SoMuchForSummerLove

I got an email today inviting me to a webinar to find out more about doing a Masters at Abertay.

No thank you!!

Masters in...Brainwashing? Non critical thinking?
IntoAir · 29/05/2021 10:37

It would be really useful to email them back, setting out exactly why you won't be considering it.

IntoAir · 29/05/2021 11:00

Sorry, I realise that sounds quite peremptory. But it would help to make a point to Abertay about academic freedom, and hit 'em where it hurts in terms of enrolments.

SoMuchForSummerLove · 29/05/2021 11:14

I know, I'm thinking about it. But I might want to do the Masters at some point in the future (5-10 years maybe) if we get past all this shite, so I'm not sure.

IntoAir · 29/05/2021 11:39

Could you say something like that? That you are interested, but you're concerned that the university seems to censor students' expression of their views, even when they are called upon in seminars to express them. Could you ask them how they are ensuring that students are able to express a wide range of views without being disciplined or punished?

Reading between the lines of the current dispute, it really looks as though a group of students really does not like Ms Keogh, and they have weaponised this via the university's complaints system.

Whatever one thinks about Ms Keogh's views, it's outrageous really.

Sandra15 · 29/05/2021 15:31

There are people transitioning who identify as women and don't have a vagina, well not at the present time, they may have once they've finished the process. So I get that. But this is a law degree course, and that could and should have been debated properly rather than be pounced on to bully Lisa Keogh.

UppityPuppity · 29/05/2021 16:52

There are people transitioning who identify as women and don't have a vagina, well not at the present time, they may have once they've finished the process.

How do they get a vagina at the end of the process? They really don’t. They get an invested penile cavity.

NOT the same thing.

IntoAir · 09/06/2021 11:17

Oh thank goodness.

I'm sure there's a story behind this: it struck me that there was an ongoing dislike (a culture clash maybe?) between other students & Ms Keogh. They seemed to have used the complaints process to get at her.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 09/06/2021 11:27

The thing is it doesn't matter if she is cleared. Same with Marion Millar and all the other women accused of this sort of thing. The investigative process is stressful enough, and a punishment on its own.

Women are afraid to speak out, not because what they say is criminal, but because they know it will be investigated regardless.

Wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 09/06/2021 11:29

Fantastic news. What a shame she now feels she can't attend her own graduation as a result of this nonsense.

SoMuchForSummerLove · 09/06/2021 11:44

I'm so glad for her (you, if you're here Lisa).

What an absolute fucking pity it ever had to happen. I understand the university had to investigate once a complaint was made, but this was a travesty. The process of being silenced, bullied, and paraded in the press is the punishment; women who speak truth are being made examples of. It's devastatingly chilling.

I hope she goes on to be a fucking amazing lawyer.

Defaultname · 09/06/2021 12:07

@UppityPuppity

There are people transitioning who identify as women and don't have a vagina, well not at the present time, they may have once they've finished the process.

How do they get a vagina at the end of the process? They really don’t. They get an invested penile cavity.

NOT the same thing.

If the council started calling potholes 'urban grottoes', I'd protest.

(Don't know their elbows from a hole in the groin).

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 09/06/2021 12:09
I'm pleased for her.

I deplore the wear and tear on individuals who are subjected to such spurious complaints and investigations.

Sandra15 · 09/06/2021 14:03

@UppityPuppity

There are people transitioning who identify as women and don't have a vagina, well not at the present time, they may have once they've finished the process.

How do they get a vagina at the end of the process? They really don’t. They get an invested penile cavity.

NOT the same thing.

Well of course but that is not what they will call it, will they?
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