It never stops in West Yorkshire. 29 Men Charged in Connection with Child Sexual Exploitation in Calderdale

[nickymanchester]

This was a press release from West Yorkshire police yesterday:-

www.westyorkshire.police.uk/news-appeals/29-men-charged-connection-child-sexual-exploitation-calderdale

It's connected to historic offences committed against a single victim from 2003 to 2010.

On the plus side, WYP do now seem to be taking these things more seriously but on the down side this is still from more than ten years ago.

Also, what really got to me about this story was that there were 29 men charged for crimes against the same, single victim.

I can't imagine what her life must have been like as a teenager when the offending was taking place.

I was so upset and horrified to read this in the news yesterday.

29 men. 1 girl. It's sickening.

@Flaxmeadow

There have been about 80 similar gangs convicted, the vast majority of them in West Yorkshire, Greater Manchester and South Yorkshire. Its reported in local news on a regular basis. Some towns have had 3 or 4 gangs convicted each.

There is another large gang from Calderdale going through the courts ATM, as well as this one

On the one hand I'm glad that these slimeballs are finally being brought before the courts. On the other hand, I am sad to see just how many slimeballs this country harbours.

Totally doesn't shock me though I wish it would. I sometimes wonder if every other ism will be eradicated from planet earth but sexism. I would love to hop on a plane and go travel the world by myself or with my gf...but I don't want to be raped and murdered. I would love to nip to the shop at midnight...but I don't want to be raped and murdered etc. Will that always be the norm? Will we always feel like prey and will men always leer at us with predatory eyes and hands even when we are clearly children?

It seems never ending doesn't it.

Anyway. Re previous comments to do with Israel-Palestine this video at 7 minutes 15 seconds in opened my eyes. It's evident that the vast majority of Israelis and Palestinians are just normal people trying to get on in life but is a undeniable power imbalance, not to mention Israel is US backed.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=lWQ3JsmlNpc

I am heartbroken for this poor girl. Absolute evil.

Something needs to be done as I bet it is still happening. But we are scared to question it for fear of racism. Yet all it does is make more people racist as they read about these gangs in the media and the short prison sentences and then say all Asian men blah blah blah. That poor girl. So brave. But I bet she wasn’t alone.

Will we always feel like prey and will men always leer at us with predatory eyes and hands even when we are clearly children?
Predators are drawn in by the helplessness of the prey
I suppose the question is why do some men behave in a predatory way to start with?
It is disgusting and horrifying almost as if this is normal behaviour from them, obviously I don't mean normal in the sense of right/good I mean normal in the sense of commonplace

Men of all types commit sex offences and rape.

The girls targeted are usually particularly vulnerable, as others have mentioned.

In Rotherham the authorities saw the girls who were being sexually exploited as. Off the rails. Child prostitutes. There was a flavour that they knew what they were doing.

Yes it needs to be understood why these gangs from certain backgrounds are doing this and more to the point being able to do it.

However we've had the RC church, the c of e church, sports coaches etc etc grooming children and getting their friends involved as well.

My personal view, and it's just how I feel. Not wanting to put it in for debate etc. My personal view is that a major factor was the girls were seen as unimportant. Troublesome. Not of value.

I think that while the community relations thing and the racism thing was a factor, it's in big part an excuse for not being bothered about what was happening to these girls.

If the girls had all been from private schools/ wealthy parents etc. Would the response have been different? I think it would.

Mias it doesn't have to be that way. Different countries. Different areas in the UK even. Have massively different levels of street harassment, rape apology, turning a blind eye etc.

That's society. What's acceptable. A small number of men will always be dangerous. But there's a big chunk in the middle who do it because they can.

In addition to race which was an issue.

There was also the issue that the girls weren't seen as true victims because they chose to spend time with these men.

One of the things that has changed for the better since then is an increased understanding of grooming and how it works.

Back then it was really hard for residential staff or fc to prevent the girls going out because the girls chose to leave and staff couldn't physically prevent them.
If the police were contacted they reached out to girls who were considered gillick competent and meeting Fraser guidelines.
So girls said they wanted to be there and nothing more was done.

Police, schools and social care were all concerned at the time but a toxic mix of fear of race, no understanding of grooming, a firm belief in dc's freedoms all impeded those who wanted to do something.

In addition there were those who thought of the dc as little those whose chosen a life of cheap prostitution and those who valued race relations more. But my memory is that it was more complex than just that.

My daughter is 13. This breaks my heart. I’ve been thinking about this poor young woman all day - what she’s been through. I want her to know we stand with her, I want her to not ever feel she is less than the beautiful wonderful innocent brave young woman she is. I want her to not blame herself or feel she caused it. I want her to live and be loved and be held by the people who love her. I want her to thrive. I want her to live a wonderful life where she heals.
And I want those men put away forever.

Lakeside I would like to think that. There's been loads of stuff about the circs of children when they leave care though.

It's clear that not one of those men is a white male but I guarantee people won't want to discuss this.

No they aren't. Whether they were born and raised here, no idea.

The fact is that when white men groom and abuse children on a large scale there's no one saying oh look white men at it again.

The commonality is it's men who do this. The modes scale and victims may be different but it's all men.

The big question is why does it happen over and over and over again.

These men, it will cause issues in the community if we pursue it
These men, they are trustworthy and wouldn't do something like that
These men are famous rich and loved. Going to be trouble if we look at it

And then
Children make stuff up
These children are off the rails
They want attention

Etc etc

As long as it's these men, those men, the other men. In discrete groups. It diverts and masks the root problem.

It's clear that not one of those men is a white male but I guarantee people won't want to discuss this.

^
Yup. They won't.

On a similar theme is why when I was at school in East Lancs I. E. Not very far from Calderdale at all, during the late 90s, large groups of a boys from a certain ethnic minority would yell and scream at white girls all the names under the sun. Which we then told the teachers, who were supposed to be protecting /supervising.
Who said, can't do nowt, they'll say it's racist.

And thus it began.

Which begs the question, what makes these boys and men do it in the first place?? This lack of respect for white girls? Which then escalates to a 13 year old being habitually raped by 29 men???

@NiceGerbil my experience was that real improvement has been made in understanding grooming and the police have many more procedures for managing this.

That doesn't mean that looked after kids don't have some shocking statistics.
But comparing the standard child population with the looked after child population is likely to always show worse outcomes for the looked after group.
Because they usually experience significant trauma before being taken into care and the trauma of being removed from their birth family and then whatever the experience of being in care provides.

So even if every experience for a looked after child was positive after being taken into care they will likely have experienced significantly higher trauma than the non looked after group.

Realistically being raised in care isn't going to be a solidly positive experience, it is made as a least worst option choice.

I just engaged in that conversation!

So surely that scuppers the idea it won't be discussed.

Where I grew up it was white men and boys who were a nightmare.

The recent reports of sexual assault and rape in schools comes from all over the place.

Focussing on one group of men when it's a problem in general which is something men and boys do directed mainly at girls and women... I just think it's a mistake tbh.

Yes by all means look at where these ideas are coming from and the forms they take in different communities.

But don't neglect all the perpetrators who aren't in X group.

And the big question is why is this happening over and over. Why are children being failed on such a massive scale?

I hope they get a taste of their own medicine in jail.

The fact is that when white men groom and abuse children on a large scale there's no one saying oh look white men at it again.

I can't think of enough examples or data to really debate this point with any accuracy. However, my point was more that as a society we're very happy to discuss the racial influence of white men's crimes (e.g. exploring their position of privilege - Jimmy Saville, Weinstein, etc), but we're extremely reticent to consider any racial dynamic when the perpetrators are non-white.

I don't believe it's racist to make that observation, and I fear that we live in a society where people are often shut down with accusations like "transphobe!", "racist!", etc.

'Exploiting' not 'exploring'.

@Wandawomble

Well said.

One of the things that has changed for the better since then is an increased understanding of grooming and how it works

what I want to know is, are rapists still sat in cars outside schools and care homes? and texting young girls? what's being done by residential staff, police, schools and social workers about rapists contacting and controlling children?

I can’t think of an example where 30 white men grouped together and abused one white girl and it went on for years with social workers and police aware of it.

Certain male cultures have no respect for white girls. Not all men. But some. And until we can change that by community education, talking etc it will not stop.

@FindTheTruth

One of the things that has changed for the better since then is an increased understanding of grooming and how it works

what I want to know is, are rapists still sat in cars outside schools and care homes? and texting young girls? what's being done by residential staff, police, schools and social workers about rapists contacting and controlling children?

Idk about schools etc but if you want some anecdata about a chill out spot?

20 years ago there would be 5-10 cars, a fire or some music and maybe 3-5 girls being used as entertainment.
Now there is a constant trickle of cars transferring single females, a steady trickle.
It's still happening and it's even harder to see now.
You also never get an opportunity to chat to the girls now. It's a slicker more professional set up.

I just hope that's not typical across the board.

I’m not afraid of talking about the race of the men involved as I’m from a similar background as them. I can tell you that there are cultural issues in place with men in all societies and in any culture where men are respected more than women - many men will treat women like shit. End of. Which actually means all cultures and many men from those cultures. Some of us from those cultures will avoid men from the same culture because we’ve had controlling fathers and brothers and other men in the community behaving in inappropriate ways towards us. It’s no better with white men, as we are seeing, the capacity to be a bully, tyrant and rapist is encouraged in all cultures.
It’s disgusting that whilst in some cultures women are still seen as cattle - the western world uses women as sex objects (still cattle)
Sick of it. And sick of people defending men when we talk about this publicly. Male violence and male sexual violence are rife and would be interesting to see exactly what statistics say how many men are doing this.

And I’m just thinking (maybe) that in certain cultures it’s groups of men and in others it’s single men. Men don’t call each other out.
I’ve seen white girls referred to as “bags of sugar” by the men in my own culture and laughed about as being easy.
I’ve also seen women from my culture being described as desperate for it and “submissive” therefore easy targets.
Teenage girls are the most vulnerable in our society and they are groomed, barely legal porn consumers are rife, and it’s horrific.