It never stops in West Yorkshire. 29 Men Charged in Connection with Child Sexual Exploitation in Calderdale

[nickymanchester]

This was a press release from West Yorkshire police yesterday:-

www.westyorkshire.police.uk/news-appeals/29-men-charged-connection-child-sexual-exploitation-calderdale

It's connected to historic offences committed against a single victim from 2003 to 2010.

On the plus side, WYP do now seem to be taking these things more seriously but on the down side this is still from more than ten years ago.

Also, what really got to me about this story was that there were 29 men charged for crimes against the same, single victim.

I can't imagine what her life must have been like as a teenager when the offending was taking place.

Clearly the number 1 thing is not to upset the Asian men community in Yorkshire. Even if women and girls are being abused daily. Seems like women's suffering is a small price to pay to avoid any whiff of racial profiling or racism.

IIRC the poster was up while John warboys was active...

Awesome and the news recently of schools all over the place not doing anything about girls being sexually harassed/ assaulted/ raped at school?

This has been known for years. The girl guides did a report on it about 8 years ago I think.

Yes the way it happens differs. And understanding that and tackling it is important.

But the bottom line is that the perpetrators are men and boys, the victims are girls and women. And universally, the girls and women are not seeing anything done. Everywhere. In all sorts of situations.

And the grooming is still happening in the areas that were so heavily reported years ago. Lots of handwringing. Everyone knows it's still happening.

For me the scared of racism thing may well be true to an extent but also it's an excuse. An excuse because large part of the task reason is that sexual offences against women and children are, on the whole, just not a priority. Especially if the victims are seen as difficult etc.

West Yorkshire police had officers who not only turned a blind eye to Jimmy Savile's crimes, but accepted hospitality from him. @awesomekillick I am not convinced that fear of racism is the reason for their inactions. Not that in any way is the crime lessened by this.

Wasn't there a blogger who won awards years ago writing about their experiences as a worker in childrens homes? Was popular in its day then seemed to disappear. Anyone recall?

awesomekillick
Clearly the number 1 thing is not to upset the Asian men community in Yorkshire. Even if women and girls are being abused daily. Seems like women's suffering is a small price to pay to avoid any whiff of racial profiling or racism.

Yes that's the attitude and the irony is that it's the women and girls who are the victims of racially aggravated crimes and no one wants to discuss that. It's always obfuscation and whataboutery along the lines of "but but but Jimmy Savile and John Warboys...what about that then?"

Why can't we ever have a discussion about what is actually happening in these many extremely serious cases, about this specific problem?

It's constantly covered up, not just by the Labour councils, Oldham and others, and by the media, but also minimised or obscured on these boards

Because Jimmy saville was left free to abuse a massive number of children while it seems his interests were well known. He had his own room in children's hosps FFS and was free to come and go as he pleased.

John warboys was a prolific sex offender who was able to continue raping women for years even though they had his reg plate etc. They didn't look into it. They turned women away because 'a black cab driver wouldn't do that'.

So what of all those victims?

'It's always obfuscation and whataboutery along the lines of "but but but Jimmy Savile and John Warboys...what about that then?"'

Do you mean to suggest that posters are only talking about those cases and others to deflect? And not because they genuinely think it's a mistake to focus on one group of men above all else, rather than all the men and all the things that are going on?

No one is saying look the other way about the grooming gangs. The way they operate, how they are so able to keep doing it. Why it's still happening. Which men which communities. This is known though isn't it?

And again the focus goes back to the men. What's the actual question? Why are they doing it? We all have a pretty good idea. What does it help though?

And what about all the other victims. Don't they matter? Or are they just handy for 'whataboutery'??? Which is a pretty big accusation. That women on these boards are not being honest, and are using the rapes of women and girls by men under different circs because they have an agenda?

'It's constantly covered up, not just by the Labour councils, Oldham and others, and by the media, but also minimised or obscured on these boards'

Again you suggest that women posting on here are as complicit in the sexual abuse of children on a vast scale as all the people in SS and the police who failed to act. And are involved/ determined to 'cover it up'.

If that's what you really think then I think you're a bit paranoid.

Because for me it's the fact that across the board so much is happening. Rape prosecutions are at an all time low. Girls and women are being assaulted by men, all sorts of men, all over the place all the time. And no one cares.

Thousands of girls just reported being sexually assaulted and raped in school. That's not trivial. It's been known for years. Nothing gets done.

That's the point. Whoever the perpetrators when it's sex offences and women and girls are the victims nothing gets done. No one cares.

To straight up say that it's because women on here are as complicit as the instruments of government who fail all these women and children is a really strong statement.

I used to go up to London, just to look round the shops, as a teenager in the 70s.

As I got off the train in London, Asian men would inevitably swoop in, trying to pick me up " You want somewhere to stay lovely?..." They always seemed to be there. Always offering a place to stay.

Presumably the station staff knew that it was going on, and did nothing about it, not their business?

I did look really young for my age (still do, naturally) but perhaps they targeted the younger teenagers, particularly? My big sister says that she was never approached. So they knew the vulnerable demographic.

"It's always obfuscation and whataboutery along the lines of "but but but Jimmy Savile and John Warboys...what about that then?"'

"Do you mean to suggest that posters are only talking about those cases and others to deflect? And not because they genuinely think it's a mistake to focus on one group of men above all else, rather than all the men and all the things that are going on?"

I'll tell you something for nothing Nice Gerbil. I have never seen a discussion on The catholic priests, or Jimmy Saville or John Warboys where somebody brought up Pakistani /Muslim grooming gangs, but I am yet to see a discussion about these grooming gangs that didn't have somebody bringing up Saville etc. Its a practice rife across forums everywhere.

The thing I guess that stands out to me is Warboys and Saville offended alone - one criminal lots of victims, each. What is happening in N Yorkshire is many criminals, all or most of whom know each other, are supporting each other to offend. many times. And the fact that most if not all these men live with several women in their family, have close family ties, and are powerful in those families, suggests that their abuse of women may be far far more widespread and endemic. It's like Bolton has it's own Handmaids Tale variant going on.

@Childrenofthestones 100% agree

Just caught up on this thread. I'd heard about the most recent case yesterday and then listened to this interview. It's an interview with a woman who is a grooming gang survivor and really moving.

nicegerbil

They are serious RACIALLY aggravated crimes. They are happening mostly in WY, SY and GM. In the space of a few years, dozens of gangs have been convicted in these neighbouring counties. These counties have a combined general population similar to London (8 million)

If this was dozens white gangs being convicted in London, targeting BAME women and children, what do think the reaction would be? There would be huge national and international outrage. We would have a constant stream of media news and documentaries about it, the celebs and activists would be organising awareness and massed marches, each court case would bring international attention. Footballers taking the knee, film stars and politicians wringing their hands making appeals.

But none of this for white women and girls in the north. Half these court cases don't even make the national news.

Last year a man was murdered in the USA. In the UK we had 3 months of media coverage of this. His funeral was live streamed on all our UK news channels. We had politicians taking the knee, including the leader of the opposition. Marches, in some places even riots, across the country. Outrage and demands for change

Where is the outrage over this?

I also think we are doing young Asian men and boys a massive disservice by not educating them about societal norms and expectations. If they don't know that what happens within their community is absolutely not acceptable how to they learn the skills that will enable them to become full members of our society. How then do they become good husbands, and, importantly, fathers.

I can't find it but Nazir Afzal talks about an Asian Muslim father complaining that his studious daughter had a boyfriend from outside the faith. Ali suggested the father worried more about the directionless son who was dabbling in borderline criminality.

As a previous poster points out, society is engaging when it comes to terrorism. But as Ali suggests,

"Having prosecuted perpetrators from more than 60 countries and [dealt with] victims from more than 50 countries, I know there isn't any community where women and girls are safe. It's a power thing and power sadly infects every community and therefore our responsibility has to begin with listening to victims and survivors."[42] He draws parallels between the way gangs groom children for sexual exploitation and the way Islamists lure young people into radicalisation. Both prey on young people who feel unwanted, unloved and are more likely to be open to manipulation, Afzal argued. He explained that strategies to target radicalisation had to appeal more to young people and called for more community-led efforts to combat the forces of radicalisation.[15]

Can I just clarify something.
The racism aspect isn't only after the fact.
The men I personally complained about (leader mentioned upthread) would make immediate counter allegations when any police were involved.
I had it done to me, as did the Indian shop lady.
It's repeated in many other grooming events, so much so that victims families have often been investigated and even charged instead of the rapers.
It was weaponised.

I'm sorry for what happened to you Iheart and I'm sorry that you are still being told you are wrong.
I want you to know you weren't invisible. Some did see. We didn't know how bad it was or what we could do but we saw you.

@imanorangemoon

Cowardice is a woke narcissistic virus. "I can't protect those white girls against the Asian grooming gang I might look racist." "I can't defend those Palestinans being bombed en masse it might make me look antisemitc!" "I can't object to being called a titty feeding bleeder it might make me look transphobic!" "I can't say I find the burqa sexist it might make me look islamaphobic!"

Absolutely agree with this

I was a foster carer 14 years ago I was asked to take 13 year old girl from Rotherham there were 3 or 4 of them needing placements they were reportedly working as sex workers I was happy to take one I was a single parent no male in the home but my stipulation was that she needed to ge willing to engage in education. I had a long conversation with her social worker who never contacted me again I asked about a year later what had happened to those girls and my social worker said when they were 15years and 8 months they were returned home to Rotherham with the keys to their own flats because THEY WERENT IN EDUCATION it was an absolute joke those girls were set up from the beginning. I had another Sikh girl sex trafficked from 13 her mum took pictures of her working as a sex worker the authorities were not interested and when I took her in in a non formal agreement her social worker reported me to social services it was a massive miscarriage of justice too long to go into here but it was unbelievable.

It was badly mishandled by a labour council

Calderdale Council had no overall control during the period in question.

Yes Parsley 1234 those girls were all out into what I seen to think they called supported living. It would be a shut flat in a dangerous area and they would get one visit a week. If those girls wanted to return to education SS wouldn’t pay the fees as they had already shown they wouldn’t stick to courses and they had a budget and had to justify spending etc

@TSBelliot yes it was an absolute joke and I was just thinking now I’m working on UC and I deal with 16/24 year olds most are graduates on my case load however there are a few in supported lodging hard to engage with and one is in thrall to her boyfriend very at risk of abuse I was told to pass her on to the person who deals with complex young people he is Asian Muslim can’t speak English and is so dismissive of any females in her predicament especially if they are pregnant jeez it’s once again hiding in plain site. We know theses girls are at risk but the people who are supposed to help are not

Yes - no change in the philosophy at all. I help some vulnerable women access medical services and I see it again. Staff who would treat me with such warmth and respect the minute they see me and read my education and confidence treating vulnerable women like they are something to belittle and dismiss.

Calderdale Council had no overall control during the period in question

Though Halifax is solid Labour. They all are or were until recently. Places like Rochdale, Rotherham, Keighley, Huddersfield, Sheffield, Bradford, Dewsbury, Oldham, Batley, Bolton, Burnley, Bury, Preston, Blackpool, Manchester, Blackburn, and the very first record of this type of crime was in Leeds in 1975.

Some of these places have seen multiple gang convictions. Four of five huge trials

Kirklees (Huddersfield, Dewsbury, Batley etc) for exmaple. In the space of a year in separate investigations
32 men charged
44 men arrested
55 charged
That is over 130 men charged or arrested in the space of one year, in Kirklees alone.

@awesomekillick

Clearly the number 1 thing is not to upset the Asian men community in Yorkshire. Even if women and girls are being abused daily. Seems like women's suffering is a small price to pay to avoid any whiff of racial profiling or racism.

It's that perspective that is the problem. The "Asian community" in West Yorkshire is, in reality, highly fractured along class, creed and educational lines.

The groomers are, inevitably, from what you might call an "underclass". They aren't the Yorkshire Asian Muslim lower middle or middle class professionals who work in the NHS, law, education, universities etc.

This professional group, of both residents and born-citizens, is huge in West Yorkshire and horrified by the grooming gangs, just as they were horrified by 7/7. But here's the thing: they don't associate with the class these groomers come from; they are not in the same cultural or social sphere of reference.

Unfortunately, the twist often comes when you look at where this particular "underclass" resides in an area. I know, in one case, it was nothing to do with upsetting the "Asian community", but more about not wanting to jeopardise votes from a certain deprived ward that fundamentally secured three councillors for Labour, and then, through virtue of a tsunami of postal votes returned in a ballot box, managed to secure a parliamentary seat for a candidate who had lost in every other polling ward.

I guess I am a little touchy about this issue because I have long term friends of Pakistani descent in West Yorkshire, and they feel angry, astonished and helpless at what has gone on - - and smeared by it. They feel as though these men are being allowed to destroy lives, destroy communities, destroy the safety of everyone's daughters and sisters, and the only thing that will stop them is a brother or an uncle with a baseball bat.

I will also add... these types are not above killing Asian Muslim girls of Pakistani descent. One was the sister of a friend of mine.