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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Can you be a true feminist if you...?

165 replies

Dontknowowt · 10/05/2021 23:06

Basically marry a rich partner
so you can give up work?

My mum was raised solely by her dad in 70'a (basically because her mum had a affair and literally buggered off one day). He was remarkable - working at least 2 jobs at a time whenever he could to put food on the table for his five kids. It was a very unusual situation back then.

My mum raised me to work hard so I could get a career and be self-sufficient as she saw how important that was for her dad and ultimately their family e.g. you don't know what's around the corner in any marriage.

Do you think a lot of people just go through their lives ultimately planning to rely on someone else financially?

It just doesn't sit easy with me.

OP posts:
MrsTroutfireVII · 11/05/2021 23:14

Also, who decides? It seems that most feminist nowdays are liberal or woke (certainly the young), but on here it's usually radfems.

Checkingout811 · 11/05/2021 23:19

Excellent posts by @LemonRoses

OP do you honestly not see any difference in a mother’s role to a fathers? Did your husband birth and breastfeed your children?

Checkingout811 · 11/05/2021 23:22

I am a SAHM and I am a feminist. I am living my life the way I choose to live it and I don’t see how anyone can judge how I choose to do that.
I spend my time looking after my children. Doing the things I enjoy. Seeing people I enjoy spending time with. Supporting causes that I am passionate about. Fundraising for charities close to my heart.

Surely it is very anti-feminist to judge women for the choices they make?

Original poster
Dontknowowt · 11/05/2021 23:38

@Checkingout811 It doesn't make me a better/more important parent than my child's father simply because I gave birth to her!

OP posts:
Original poster
Dontknowowt · 11/05/2021 23:40

As an extended breastfeeder myself I understand the bf'ing issue, but don't get what physically giving birth has to do with it?

OP posts:
Original poster
Dontknowowt · 11/05/2021 23:40

And i don't have a husband Smile

OP posts:
GoingThruTheMotions · 11/05/2021 23:46

I took at least 8 months for my body to be ok again after giving birth.
If I'd have been due back at work the kids would have come up with a delightful name for my wincy walk and leaky bladder.

Original poster
Dontknowowt · 11/05/2021 23:53

@GoingThruTheMotions That sounds painful, sorry you had quite a lengthy recovery there.
I think my daughter's birth was probably more stressful for my other half tbf, partly as she was his first (and last!) baby and my third. I had a mega chilled-out homebirth with minimal-almost no medical intervention and he ended up "catching" her as I delivered into his arms on our bedroom floor. It was awesome!

OP posts:
GoingThruTheMotions · 12/05/2021 00:08

Lucky you. I had a 78 hour induction and an infection that possibly caused ds cerebral palsy.

Another good illustration not how our lives are all full of different breaks and choices.

SmokedDuck · 12/05/2021 00:48

I'm not sure anyone said the mother's role was "better".

HecatesCatsInFancyHats · 12/05/2021 06:47

I think my daughter's birth was probably more stressful for my other half tbf

Seriously?!?

Can I ask again OP since you didn't answer me before - what's your definition of a "true" feminist?

Checkingout811 · 12/05/2021 07:03

@Dontknowowt I didn’t say it made you a better parent than your partner. I asked if you didn’t see any difference in your roles? There is clearly a difference in roles. That cannot be disputed. Physically giving birth is relevant because men cannot do it. Therefore, they have a different role. Not a less important role. A different role.

Checkingout811 · 12/05/2021 07:04

@Dontknowowt although I would argue that during birth mothers are more important. For obvious reasons.

LemonRoses · 12/05/2021 07:06

[quote Dontknowowt]@Checkingout811 It doesn't make me a better/more important parent than my child's father simply because I gave birth to her![/quote]
It doesn’t make you a better parent. It makes you a mother and definitely a better mother. Mothering is a very important role for society and for women.
Good mothering has a huge impact on the next generation.

Original poster
Dontknowowt · 12/05/2021 07:09

@LemonRoses I don't disagree. As does good fathering too.

OP posts:
LimpLettice · 12/05/2021 07:32

That's a bit All Lives Matter, though, isn't it? Talking as we are about whether the role of mother is valued enough, which for many of us it isn't, on a thread you started about whether SAHMs are some sort of leech off of their menfolk. Which is a separate issue to the role of dads. Lots of tangential arguments here which have very little to do with the initial assertion.

You are right that financial expediency plays a huge role, and that for some women it is their lower paid status which dictates who stays home, but that argues again for choice. A woman who works to eat but would love to stay home is no more or less a feminist than one with the funds who chooses not to.

My DH is an excellent father. He loves our children unconditionally and contributes to their development and wellbeing on many levels. He would argue that my pregnancies, births and feeding of our children have created a slightly different set of instincts and relationships, and I think he is correct. Different doesn't mean better.

Original poster
Dontknowowt · 12/05/2021 07:50

@LimpLettice Agree. Different doesn't mean better. So a SAHD can be different to a SAHM but equally as good at it.

OP posts:
LimpLettice · 12/05/2021 08:25

Right. But is this entire thread about women who stay home, or do we have to include dads in every post?

Checkingout811 · 12/05/2021 08:35

@Dontknowowt okay. Playing devils advocate.
You breastfed, so you feel breast milk was important for your child?
So why wasn’t your partner able to exclusively bottle feed? He is equally as important and vital to parenting so why was that taken away from him?

I breastfed for 12 months with both DS so I get it. But I’m just trying to understand how you’re constantly coming back to every poster with “so is dad”
So why was your child’s need for breast milk greater than your partners needs? Why was your need to feed greater than your partners?

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 12/05/2021 08:40

But I’m just trying to understand how you’re constantly coming back to every poster with “so is dad”

But not when talking about women who marry rich men so they can have an easy life

MissBarbary · 12/05/2021 08:46

@Checkingout811

Excellent posts by *@LemonRoses*

OP do you honestly not see any difference in a mother’s role to a fathers? Did your husband birth and breastfeed your children?

Newsflash - not every woman can or wants to breastfeed and presumably even the most die- hard breastfeeder gives up around 2.

I'm struggling to see what difference this or giving birth makes in the whole scheme of parenting.

MissBarbary · 12/05/2021 08:49

[quote Checkingout811]@Dontknowowt I didn’t say it made you a better parent than your partner. I asked if you didn’t see any difference in your roles? There is clearly a difference in roles. That cannot be disputed. Physically giving birth is relevant because men cannot do it. Therefore, they have a different role. Not a less important role. A different role.[/quote]
Er yes , for that particular point in the child's life. I have no idea why that should make the female parent "different" in the context of parenting for the rest of the child's life.

MissBarbary · 12/05/2021 08:53

LemonRoses

Dontknowowt

*@Checkingout811*It doesn't make me a better/more important parent than my child's father simply because I gave birth to her!

It doesn’t make you a better parent. It makes you a mother and definitely a better mother

Giving birth makes you a better mother? How insulting to mothers of adopted children.

LimpLettice · 12/05/2021 08:54

@RufustheBadgeringReindeer

But I’m just trying to understand how you’re constantly coming back to every poster with “so is dad”

But not when talking about women who marry rich men so they can have an easy life

Indeed.
LemonRoses · 12/05/2021 08:57

Whilst understanding how society allows it to happen, I think those who try to ‘have everything’, or who are forced down an unsustainable juggling route, are far more detrimental to the cause of women than those who’ve agreed with their partner to be a stay at home mother who is respected as the income earners equal.

Yes, they are better off working if there is a breakdown of the relationship, but they certainly aren’t often demonstrating equality of the sexes and respect for traditional sex based roles.

Too often families split, creating significant problems for everyone, because that respect for motherhood is missing or because women have been duped into believing that a 46-hour-a-week, salaried role makes them more equal. If that woman still has to come home and make the beds, do the food shop, feed the children, buy birthday presents and make fancy-dress costumes whilst her partner pops out to football practice then she has anything but equality.

We have a long way to go yet and suggesting mothers who choose (or have very little choice) to remain as the primary care provider are in some way less liberated is clearly undermining of progress towards equality.