Can you be a true feminist if you...?

[Dontknowowt]

Basically marry a rich partner
so you can give up work?

My mum was raised solely by her dad in 70'a (basically because her mum had a affair and literally buggered off one day). He was remarkable - working at least 2 jobs at a time whenever he could to put food on the table for his five kids. It was a very unusual situation back then.

My mum raised me to work hard so I could get a career and be self-sufficient as she saw how important that was for her dad and ultimately their family e.g. you don't know what's around the corner in any marriage.

Do you think a lot of people just go through their lives ultimately planning to rely on someone else financially?

It just doesn't sit easy with me.

I think as many men would be equally happy to marry rich and not work! The problem is there are vastly more rich men than rich women (more rich mediocre men than rich women). Until we can fix the systems and biases that lead to this, I think it’s inevitable that young women look for a (seemingly) easy option - it’s swimming with the tide instead of against it.

I sometimes wonder whether we have all been tricked into overvaluing being wage slaves. I'm not sure that buying into status or self-worth derived from patriarchal standards of 'working outside the home = worthy and working inside it = not' is all that healthy or even feminist.

I am always deeply struck by stories from hospice workers who almost universally relay that at the very end people do not care to remember their accolades or successes in their work, but the special and meaningful people (especially family) in their lives.

I am always deeply struck by stories from hospice workers who almost universally relay that at the very end people do not care to remember their accolades or successes in their work, but the special and meaningful people (especially family) in their lives.

I read an article ages ago where they asked people (may have been terminally ill, can't reminder) their biggest regret, and the most common one was spending too much of their life at work.

But the father in the OP would've likely had no choice as men generally can't marry a rich partner like women can.

@ChakaDakotaRegina

I think as many men would be equally happy to marry rich and not work! The problem is there are vastly more rich men than rich women (more rich mediocre men than rich women). Until we can fix the systems and biases that lead to this, I think it’s inevitable that young women look for a (seemingly) easy option - it’s swimming with the tide instead of against it.

I also wonder whether another factor is the fact that the man is often five years older than the woman, which is enough time to make a significant difference in salary when relatively young.

I don't know the answer but I recently saw a chart from a study which showed that couples of the same sure were much more likely to stay together.

'Same age' not 'same sure'.

Whether or not you have got a job has nothing to do with being a feminist.

Feminists are people who campaign for women’s rights.

It has nothing to do with everyone doing exactly the same thing.

@LibertyMole

Whether or not you have got a job has nothing to do with being a feminist.

Feminists are people who campaign for women’s rights.

It has nothing to do with everyone doing exactly the same thing.

I agree with this.

I'd consider a housewife who volunteers for a DV charity more of a feminist than an arse kicking businesswoman who seemingly has no interest in helping other women (met a fair few of these in the legal sector who seemed to think female trainees had to make the same sacrifices as they did and choose between job and family).

[quote Dontknowowt]@LemonRoses So following that logic, men make better fathers?

I can tell you where the legal system sits with this. I have shared 50/50 care of my two children since they were 3 and 5. I was still bf'ing my toddler btw. Their view is both parents are equal when it comes to raising children.[/quote]
Yes indeed I believe men make better father’s! I’d absolutely concur that both parents are equal. That is surely what feminism means - a strong belief that men and women are equal? My personal perspective is, like most things, equal does not mean the same.

I love my children the same, but differently. My husband and I are equal parents, but different; we have different roles, different strengths, different weaknesses.

@ChakaDakotaRegina

I think as many men would be equally happy to marry rich and not work! The problem is there are vastly more rich men than rich women (more rich mediocre men than rich women). Until we can fix the systems and biases that lead to this, I think it’s inevitable that young women look for a (seemingly) easy option - it’s swimming with the tide instead of against it.

I think this is probably part of the problem. You call it ‘not working’. That not my experience or belief at all. I certainly worked harder as the primary care provider to little ones than I do now in a relatively well paid full time job.

@MrsTroutfireVII Why the heck not?!!

I don’t have many qualifications or much earning power, not because I’m lazy and never worked. I’ve always worked.

But I have a history of abuse and substance abuse going back to my early teens, I was homeless and pregnant by 21. I have bipolar which has led to periods of unemployment and job losses.

I hate posts like this because they assume everyone has the same chance to go to university and into a career.

I’m in my 40s now and have a high earning husband. I work 48-60 hours a week in hospitality management but I don’t earn much over minimum wage for that (£24k with no paid overtime). I am doing an apprenticeship which will eventually give me a degree level qualification but I’ll be 45 by then.

We live in the SE so if DH buggered off I’d be fucked, half the equity in the house wouldn’t get me a studio flat and my DC are adults so no top up benefits.

It’s not for want of hard work or aspiration, I’ve never been out of work while I’ve been stable/well.

It’s very unfeminist and tone deaf of you to assume that low earning women are happy to live off a man.

Yes, because you can see the bigger picture and understand that you are one 'case'

@BelleClapper I didn't for one second say all women - I said "some."

My partner (a man) didn't get any qualifications not because he didn't want to, but because he became ill.

I totally understand there are different circumstances.

I think you’re confused with what feminism is about. Feminism is about equality and freedom to choose. So women who have decided to stay home because they wish to are no less feminist than a business woman who chose to return to work. Key word is CHOICE.

Your post is actually very anti feminism. You have effectively pigeonholed an entire category of women as potential hypocrites to the cause for being housewives or SAHP just because “it doesn’t sit easy with you”

How abrasive.

Crikey. I don't think it's remotely feminist if you to assume SAHP women are 'living off' a rich man. Low opinion of some women, haven't you?

I was a good earner lone parent to my DD. Not because I was a feminist, but because we needed a home and to eat. I missed her, and no, I don't think her father would have done a comparable job. He's a crap parent anyway but he's also not a mother. I was financially self sufficient, a bit feminist, but with no time or energy to DO anything for anyone except schlepp to work and try to be there as much as I could.

Nowadays I'm a SAHP. When I met DH we earned the same, but his field is just bigger bucks and he now earns more than twice what I did at the height of my career. It was my decision to stay home with the babies, and I did push him into a higher paid role to facilitate that. Childcare would eat a lot of my salary for 3 children, but that's not why. I want to be with them and I find it actually offensive to assume that looking after my family is somehow living off a man or worth less than some techie job. It does help that our home was bought with my money, but even if it wasn't, we are a partnership and both roles enable our family income.

I'm also much more active as a feminist - my activism has taken off since I've been at hone. Partially due to time, but also like many feminists because my experiences of childbirth and motherhood have sharpened my focus on the issues that face women and attitudes towards us. Feminism is for mothers, single women, girls, aged women - no matter their status, thanks, but it is our reproductive biology / role as nurturers which causes most of the problems we face and to belittle those roles is distinctly unfeminist 🤷🏻‍♀️

Posts like these are too generalising imo, and doesn’t take into account that not everyone has had the same opportunities.
I quit my job when my son was born because it was low paying and I would basically be wiping out my income on childcare if I kept working. I didn’t have a problem with it from a feminist perspective because I trusted that I could rely on my ex. Unfortunately I was wrong. He wasn’t “rich”, he just earned a bit more than I did.
Now I’m in the position of having to re-train while raising my son so that I can actually have some earning potential. Generally women like me don’t have time to think about how feminist our life is when we’re just trying to pay the rent.

@LimpLettice couldn’t agree more

I live off my husband’s money

I am a feminist and I’m a bit bored of posters deciding whether I’m a good feminist or not

I appreciate that the OP is talking about a handful of women who have gone out specifically to partner with a rich man and not work again...but I agree with PP that they probably wouldn’t say they are feminists

I’m with you @LemonRoses about the unique role of mothering distinct from fathering and the fact that it is an undervalued role which makes an important contribution to family and society.

Mothers and children should have greater protection in law in the case of abandonment in my opinion. As in the state should provide better support for single mothers, (I use the term mother because they are the vast majority of single parents but I include the 10% or so who are single fathers in that too).

I don’t think that the question of being financially supported is a good one to determine if someone is feminist or not.

Volunteer work or other unpaid actions can demonstrate feminism.

Making sure that you have income of your own is prudent but I don’t see how you can argue that it is feminist. It is more looking out for your interests, your own financial security.

Sure I would likely judge someone who married for money rather than love but feminism would not be main objection, rather the shallowness and greed of such an act.

I agree with @BelleClapper. There’s something decidedly unfeminist about the tone of the OP.

It’s this nasty, judgemental stuff that puts women off. Same with plastic surgery, make up, long hair...

For all we know the Colleen Rooneys of the world could be actively teaching their kids about feminist values, anonymously supporting women’s projects in communities etc. Being at home, even when your kids are in school is still worthwhile as kids still need emotional support. It doesn’t matter if that is a mum or dad but women earn less so obviously are more likely to stay home.

I wouldn’t work if I married a very wealthy man. But I would do other types of work. If I won the lottery I’ve always said (I don’t actually play however) I’d go do a PhD in my bachelors topic. A door that was never open to me as a working class kid with crap parents. And academia isn’t well paid anyway if I had got a job.

I’m not currently working, just pandemic related so will return soon, and stayed home until kids went to school. I’m very grateful I married a decent man who I could trust not to fuck me over. Surely this is more about shitty men than whether the woman is a feminist.

An awful lot of feminists in the past were women who had the money of their husband or father. They had the luxury of time to devote to the cause. A lot of men who made scientific discoveries also did so because they had family money and didn’t need to work.

@stirrednotshaken80 So for the many women who don't have the choice, does that make them less of a feminist?

I don't think many women (and certainly not ones who are feminists) set out to snag a rich man so that they can choose not to work. People do what they think is best in the circumstances in which they find themselves. Some of those circumstances are created (or at least affected) by the fact that we do not yet live in a society where men are expected to be the main childcarer. Men cannot breastfeed, so for lots of people that skews the parenting onus from early on.

I don't think anybody has the right to say a woman isn't a feminist merely on the basis that it has turned out to make more sense financially or for family reasons for her to be a SAHM.

I do have a female acquaintance (age about 55) who gave up her job the moment she got married though. Never wanted kids, never had any. Hasn't done a day's paid (or voluntary) work since her wedding. That I do find a bit... old-fashioned!

@Dontknowowt A choice in what precisely? If you’re getting at women who would like to stay home but can’t afford to... that still comes under life choices the majority of the time. But I have to say that I’ve absolutely no idea why you are equating the lifestyle someone leads to how much of a feminist they are. It is irrelevant.