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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

New School Guidance from Sex Matters and TransgenderTrend

140 replies

rogdmum · 09/05/2021 07:41

Great to see this!

Tailored version for Scotland as well

sex-matters.org/posts/updates/schools-guidance/

OP posts:
BreatheAndFocus · 09/05/2021 08:46

Very detailed and clear - thanks for posting.

MidsomerMurmurs · 09/05/2021 08:59

That’s really helpful and it’s very refreshing to see points like this actually spelled out:

Neglecting to protect a child with the normal standard of safeguarding because the child identifies as trans is discrimination on grounds of gender reassignment

ValancyRedfern · 09/05/2021 12:03

Place-marking to have a look later. Unfortunately I know a lot of Pshe teachers who would dismiss anything by Transgender Trend out of hand because they have been told they are transphobic.

RobinMoiraWhite · 09/05/2021 12:11

[quote rogdmum]Great to see this!

Tailored version for Scotland as well

sex-matters.org/posts/updates/schools-guidance/[/quote]
Regrettably this guidance is based on the same incorrect assumptions and misreading of the Equality Act as AEA presented in court last week. It is, IMHO, partisan, incomplete and misleading, and if followed would be likely to cause a school to be acting unlawfully towards gender diverse children and young people.

WarriorN · 09/05/2021 12:16

I believe the law has been very carefully looked at when writing this:

This guide seeks to cut through the confusion over this issue and offer simple usability. It draws on existing Equality and Human Rights Commission Technical Guidance and Department for Education guidance, school buildings regulations and safeguarding frameworks. It includes a model policy that schools can adopt.

WarriorN · 09/05/2021 12:21

Given that

*Schools that support a child’s wish to switch gender without informing their parents are potentially breaching the law, according to a respected Scottish lawyer.

Guidance adopted by about half of Scotland’s 32 local authorities advises schools to respect a transgender pupil’s privacy and suggests that parents need not be told if their child wishes to be treated as a member of the opposite sex.*

This new guidance, which respects the rights of trans identifying children and young people, as well as recogning the importance of single sex spaces from a safeguarding and equality point of view (eg girls from certain religions etc) is clearly needed.

Quote from times article today. www.thetimes.co.uk/article/guidance-to-schools-on-transgender-acknowledgement-breaches-law-r39whlmk7

Erikrie · 09/05/2021 12:29

Fabulous news.

Erikrie · 09/05/2021 12:31

It's about time children's safeguards were recognised. Theres been too many nefarious organisations and individuals trying to remove our children's safeguards.

Erikrie · 09/05/2021 12:34

if followed would be likely to cause a school to be acting unlawfully towards gender diverse children and young people.

It follows basic legal safeguards. I know some people don't care about those things. Fortunately there are more of us that do care about children's legal protections. ALL children.

RobinMoiraWhite · 09/05/2021 12:34

@WarriorN

I believe the law has been very carefully looked at when writing this:

This guide seeks to cut through the confusion over this issue and offer simple usability. It draws on existing Equality and Human Rights Commission Technical Guidance and Department for Education guidance, school buildings regulations and safeguarding frameworks. It includes a model policy that schools can adopt.

Must have been some different law to that I use, then.
fishareboring · 09/05/2021 12:39

Thanks for this link, very useful.

Since these days we're all left picking our personal interpretations of wholly and completely fucked up and incomprehensible law to suit ourselves, I'll be trusting this guidance to take equal regard for all children, even the female ones, as opposed to the versions that regards female children's rights as disposable.

Erikrie · 09/05/2021 12:52

Must have been some different law to that I use, then.

Without a doubt.

WarriorN · 09/05/2021 12:55

Yeah, safeguarding is quite an important area in schools.

Erikrie · 09/05/2021 12:56

I'll be trusting this guidance to take equal regard for all children, even the female ones, as opposed to the versions that regards female children's rights as disposable

Absolutely. I will make sure my children's school are using it.

Erikrie · 09/05/2021 12:58

Yeah, safeguarding is quite an important area in schools.

I think this is the problem some people have, they look at single issues in isolation, whilst failing to see the bigger picture and the wider legislation that underpins this. Which is why this mess occurred in the first place.

RobinMoiraWhite · 09/05/2021 13:00

There is an aspect of this guidance of which I am very supportive. It is clearly badged as originating from TT and SM which will make it simple for schools to file it appropriately.

Liliolla · 09/05/2021 13:03

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Erikrie · 09/05/2021 13:05

I have reported above post.

CorvusPurpureus · 09/05/2021 13:08

Well, that was timely.

I'm supposed to be teaching a couple of lessons on gender for a PSHE day later this month, & the original resources were...concerning.

After I sent this link to the relevant organiser, I'm glad to say that the Genderbread Person has been summarily escorted out of the PowerPoint & now we are focusing on sex based stereotypes in education & the workplace.

persistentwoman · 09/05/2021 13:39

A quick scan of this - and it looks excellent. It has a Do no harm child-welfare-centred approach This of course is so different from the adult led groups who were criticised by the Observer's leader comment on the Keira Bell case - 6th December 2020)
Any questioning of the gender-affirming model ......is dismissed as transphobic. This is a chilling state of affairs that is detrimental to child safety. .....Children are not pawns to be deployed in adult debates about identity.

The CPS have withdrawn their unpleasant girl-hating trans guidelines for schools in the face of legal challenge. The EHRC presumably can't find a way of legally prioritising their preferred protected characteristic group over all the others, so have abandoned their long standing commitment to produce guidance for schools.
This therefore is a timely intervention with a child centred, safeguarding focus that acknowledges competing rights but strives to keep all children safe and protected in a myriad of ways.

OvaHere · 09/05/2021 13:48

@RobinMoiraWhite

There is an aspect of this guidance of which I am very supportive. It is clearly badged as originating from TT and SM which will make it simple for schools to file it appropriately.
I presume you are saying here that schools should put it straight in the bin.

Do you have any children Robin? Why would you be against safeguarding being the top priority for all children?

My children's school have found the nuanced and thoughtful approach from previous TT schools guidance to be helpful. Good policy is made by reading widely and drawing from a range of sources.

TheShadowyFeminist · 09/05/2021 13:58

Regrettably this guidance is based on the same incorrect assumptions and misreading of the Equality Act as AEA presented in court last week. It is, IMHO, partisan, incomplete and misleading, and if followed would be likely to cause a school to be acting unlawfully towards gender diverse children and young people.

Another bold claim.

Specifically, where exactly does the guide 'misread & make incorrect assumptions' about the EA2010? A vague hand wave that the guide "would be likely to cause a school to act unlawfully" doesn't really convince anyone.

Give us the details and arguments that back up your opinion. This is a discussion forum - we're all capable of discussing this. General claims without evidence don't persuade anyone.

RobinMoiraWhite · 09/05/2021 14:10

@TheShadowyFeminist

Regrettably this guidance is based on the same incorrect assumptions and misreading of the Equality Act as AEA presented in court last week. It is, IMHO, partisan, incomplete and misleading, and if followed would be likely to cause a school to be acting unlawfully towards gender diverse children and young people.

Another bold claim.

Specifically, where exactly does the guide 'misread & make incorrect assumptions' about the EA2010? A vague hand wave that the guide "would be likely to cause a school to act unlawfully" doesn't really convince anyone.

Give us the details and arguments that back up your opinion. This is a discussion forum - we're all capable of discussing this. General claims without evidence don't persuade anyone.

Happy to. Dealt with in the 'Education' Chapter of 'A Practical Guide to Transgender Law' due out in about ten days.
WarriorN · 09/05/2021 14:14

Schools have to keep all records of any type of safeguarding incident on file for 100 years, incase of historic abuse claims.

Schools are leaving themselves wide open to future claims given we do know a number of safeguarding issues, Girls abused in school premises, including unisex toilets, that have already happened.

Not to mention a school creating a culture where pupils are led down a path by staff they later in life realise wasn't the right decision, aka detransitioners.

Schools have a duty of care. For all pupils.

Safeguarding is marking sure that all eventualities are considered before they happen. Usually sadly, based on known examples of where safeguarding has failed the young people it's supposed to care for.

ThomasPenman · 09/05/2021 14:14

I think Robin is referring to the incorrect assumptions that male=male, female=female, girl/woman=female, boy/man=male.
Robin prefers to interpret the acts imagining that male can mean female, girl might mean boy, woman might mean man etc and vice versa.

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