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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

New School Guidance from Sex Matters and TransgenderTrend

140 replies

rogdmum · 09/05/2021 07:41

Great to see this!

Tailored version for Scotland as well

sex-matters.org/posts/updates/schools-guidance/

OP posts:
2fallsagain · 09/05/2021 22:01

Robin was stonewalls barrister in Allison Bailey case.

HecatesCatsInFancyHats · 09/05/2021 22:03

Thanks for sharing rogdmum

SunsetBeetch · 09/05/2021 22:28

Has this already been posted? Apologies if so.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/09/transgender-guidelines-girls-schools-quietly-scrapped-equalities/amp/

SunsetBeetch · 09/05/2021 22:29

"An EHRC spokesman said: "Considering the lack of definitive case law, it has become clear that publishing our guidance may not provide schools with the clarity we hoped.

"This would not be in the best interests of young people, including trans pupils. We have therefore decided not to publish our guidance." "

Helleofabore · 09/05/2021 22:41

Snap SunsetBeetch.

Here is the archived version.

archive.md/Ap2As

Maybe that section of that book that keeps getting plugged is ill advised considering the ERHC has pointed out it is all untested.

And, just a note, authors get banned for plugging their books, don’t they? Or at least they have in past.

Please stop spamming with your book plugs, Robin. I have seen it mentioned before. I haven’t joined MN to see pretty blatant self promotion like this. Ask MN what their rates are for advertising, but please stop plugging the book on threads.

snekkes · 09/05/2021 22:42

I'm intrigued by the number of posters flatly refusing to read a book which - although I haven't seen an advance copy - I imagine will probably cite plenty of references and caselaw.

Why would so many posters be unwilling to engage with a study of the law in this regard? Even if you disagree with it, don't you want to know what it says?

OvaHere · 09/05/2021 22:51

@snekkes

I'm intrigued by the number of posters flatly refusing to read a book which - although I haven't seen an advance copy - I imagine will probably cite plenty of references and caselaw.

Why would so many posters be unwilling to engage with a study of the law in this regard? Even if you disagree with it, don't you want to know what it says?

I'm willing to read it but I'm not willing to buy it. So that's the biggest stumbling block as I'm sure it is for others.

So maybe if I can borrow a copy or get it at a library I might take a look.

In the meantime I'm fairly sure the Legal Feminist org will read it and give us a synopsis.

Floisme · 09/05/2021 22:52

Oh I can't wait to see what it says, I always enjoy hearing Robin's stories.

spongedog · 09/05/2021 22:56

@2fallsagain

Robin was stonewalls barrister in Allison Bailey case.
OK so massive invested interest. I am on these threads a lot and I didnt know that.Why would they not declare their invested interest? I am a chartered professional and have to declare interests. It's fair. It doesnt mean that i am not competent, knowledgeable, able, but it does mean that I have taken a side.
OldCrone · 09/05/2021 23:02

And, just a note, authors get banned for plugging their books, don’t they? Or at least they have in past.

I reported Robin's post plugging their book, and mentioned that I remembered another author doing this who had all their advertising posts deleted (don't know if they were banned as well). I had an email from MNHQ saying they were looking into it, but the post's still there.

CardinalLolzy · 09/05/2021 23:04

@snekkes

I'm intrigued by the number of posters flatly refusing to read a book which - although I haven't seen an advance copy - I imagine will probably cite plenty of references and caselaw.

Why would so many posters be unwilling to engage with a study of the law in this regard? Even if you disagree with it, don't you want to know what it says?

In theory yes, I always want to see the arguments laid out and have been very open in requesting this. However, there are some authors I would be wary of giving too much time to - just as a random example, ones who have shown themselves to either support racist theories or appear to due to their poor use of logic. Or, more frequently (and again, not saying this is specific to RMW, but have seen in lots of "Why GC women are wrong and bad" articles online) those who rely on premises I know to be strawmen.

Tbh I think the law itself is muddled and hard to extrapolate from into real situations without contradicting itself - as seen in several recent court cases - so unless the book fully acknowledges and deals with this I wouldn't take it too seriously.
(Clearly I am going on a lot of assumptions here as I haven't seen a copy!)

Helleofabore · 09/05/2021 23:08

I have noticed at least on one other thread oldcrone where they have referred to it, maybe on two other threads. I have not read that many this weekend.

I am sure MN would very happily advertise it if they were paid the rate card fee.

Of course, Robin could also quote and reference relevant sections like most posters do normally when referencing books in answer to questions. But I don’t suppose that will be done.

OvaHere · 09/05/2021 23:15

OK so massive invested interest. I am on these threads a lot and I didnt know that.Why would they not declare their invested interest? I am a chartered professional and have to declare interests. It's fair. It doesnt mean that i am not competent, knowledgeable, able, but it does mean that I have taken a side.

To be honest I don't find it very professional that Robin comes here at all under their real name to lecture and belittle women given Robin's legal role in some high profile cases, Allison's case for example was crowdfunded by most of the women posting here.

For the record I am NOT saying Robin shouldn't post on Mumsnet but to do so under their real name and profession might feel intimidating to some women considering the conflict of interest. I"m sure that's not intentional though.

theThreeofWeevils · 09/05/2021 23:20

My feeling is more or less the opposite, OvaHere. I'm all for transparency. And sunlight, of course 🌞

Erikrie · 09/05/2021 23:24

Why would so many posters be unwilling to engage with a study of the law in this regard? Even if you disagree with it, don't you want to know what it says?

Not if I have to pay for it no. There's plenty of books that I don't want to buy for lots of different reasons. This would be one of them. There's plenty of other resources out there.

CardinalLolzy · 09/05/2021 23:25

@theThreeofWeevils

My feeling is more or less the opposite, OvaHere. I'm all for transparency. And sunlight, of course 🌞
Agreed, RMW's posts are often useful and at least sometimes articulate an actual point - whether or not I agree with it - when they're not tirelessly promoting the book!
OldCrone · 09/05/2021 23:28

I agree that what Robin posts here seems very unprofessional OvaHere, but I don't think people are particularly intimidated. Robin's arguments seem very weak, consisting mainly of 'you're wrong, read my book to find out why', and most recently asserting that sex doesn't actually exist.

OvaHere · 09/05/2021 23:29

Oh I don't dispute the value of transparency and debate but from a professional point of view I do think it's a strange choice.

Floisme · 09/05/2021 23:58

Do legal books get a launch and everything? Because given all the free publicity Robin has had through Mumsnet, I think the least we deserve is an invitation.

RobinMoiraWhite · 10/05/2021 00:08

@Helleofabore

Snap SunsetBeetch.

Here is the archived version.

archive.md/Ap2As

Maybe that section of that book that keeps getting plugged is ill advised considering the ERHC has pointed out it is all untested.

And, just a note, authors get banned for plugging their books, don’t they? Or at least they have in past.

Please stop spamming with your book plugs, Robin. I have seen it mentioned before. I haven’t joined MN to see pretty blatant self promotion like this. Ask MN what their rates are for advertising, but please stop plugging the book on threads.

Thank you for the mention.
Floisme · 10/05/2021 00:17

So Robin are you having a book launch and if so,are you going to tell us when and where? I think it would be impolite not to, given the way you've been trying to flog it on here, plus it would give you a chance to answer some of those questions you've had to leave hanging on other threads.

Helleofabore · 10/05/2021 07:41

Thank you for the mention.

And this says it all really.

Jannetra17 · 10/05/2021 11:28

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Erikrie · 10/05/2021 11:41

And this says it all really.

I guess it's true in some cases, as the saying goes, even negative attention is better than no attention 🤷

SunsetBeetch · 10/05/2021 16:07

Pretty ironic considering a lot of TRAs are trying to stop advertising on Mumsnet Grin