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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

New School Guidance from Sex Matters and TransgenderTrend

140 replies

rogdmum · 09/05/2021 07:41

Great to see this!

Tailored version for Scotland as well

sex-matters.org/posts/updates/schools-guidance/

OP posts:
WarriorN · 09/05/2021 14:16

Woolly language and boundaries cause safeguarding failures.

persistentwoman · 09/05/2021 14:22

RobinMoiraWhite, As you are citing this, how does your new book relate to children, education law and safeguarding?

spongedog · 09/05/2021 14:23

@RobinMoiraWhite Sun 09-May-21 14:10:19

Happy to. Dealt with in the 'Education' Chapter of 'A Practical Guide to Transgender Law' due out in about ten days.

is this a document that you have a hand in writing?

Erikrie · 09/05/2021 14:25

Happy to. Dealt with in the 'Education' Chapter of 'A Practical Guide to Transgender Law' due out in about ten days

You're citing the book that you are the author of Robin, using it as some sort of evidence, whilst also taking the opportunity to plug it here?? A little transparency around that would be the right thing to do wouldnt it. As it suggests some sort of bias.

It's not a book for me I'm afraid. I'm more interested in books that have a more robust knowledge of safeguarding. Obviously. As it's what I do. Day in. Day out. Lived experience as you like. ☺️

TheShadowyFeminist · 09/05/2021 14:28

[quote spongedog]@RobinMoiraWhite Sun 09-May-21 14:10:19

Happy to. Dealt with in the 'Education' Chapter of 'A Practical Guide to Transgender Law' due out in about ten days.

is this a document that you have a hand in writing?[/quote]
No, this is blatant advertising of a book written & is about to be published.

In case it's not obvious, there's contributions being made across MN that repeats this. Unsubstantiated claims plopped onto threads, then a 'oh, you can read this in my new book' replies that fail to engage in the discussion.

Its very transparent.

Floisme · 09/05/2021 14:29

Oh has Robin got a book coming out? Grin

OldCrone · 09/05/2021 14:32

Unsubstantiated claims plopped onto threads, then a 'oh, you can read this in my new book' replies that fail to engage in the discussion.

I'll treat Robin's claims about the law in the same way I would any other unsubstantiated claim then.

Alternatively Robin you could take part in the discussion by posting a summary for us to discuss.

maslinpan · 09/05/2021 14:33

Won't Robin give us a couple of teaser quotes to whip up sales even more? I am all agog!

persistentwoman · 09/05/2021 14:34

Pleasing to see that the Sex Matters / Transgender Trend school guidelines are freely downloadable. Always good to see organisations putting child safeguarding first rather than profits.

Floisme · 09/05/2021 14:45

To be fair, Robin does have some quite good spitfire anecdotes - I hope there will be some new ones though.

TabbyStar · 09/05/2021 14:46

Happy to. Dealt with in the 'Education' Chapter of 'A Practical Guide to Transgender Law' due out in about ten days.

This reminds me of, "I have got a girlfriend, but you wouldn't know her, she goes to a different school".

fishareboring · 09/05/2021 16:06

I'll look forward to the legal group for women being discussed coming up with A Practical Guide to Women's Law', and then contrasting and comparing. I anticipate an absolute gulf.

It really doesn't matter how many times I get told that as a female person my rights are in the bin and that's the law, it's not a perspective I ever plan to cooperate with. I will however keep focusing with my MP and everyone else I can talk to that

a) this is a really bloody awful legal muddle that no one now fully understands, being flexibly interpreted in all directions, and needs to go in the bin and be re drafted from scratch.

b) trying to place male interests above female interests isn't equality or diversity, it's something else all together.

Thelnebriati · 09/05/2021 16:34

A Practical Guide to Women's Law;

Women's Rights are many.
Men have only two;
Everything they say, and
Everything they do.

happydappy2 · 09/05/2021 16:56

It’s amusing how many men wilfully misinterpret the law & claim it’s a myth that women/girls have any rights to single sex spaces.

We do, we can say no to males in our spaces. We will ensure all schools prioritise safeguarding of children over mens rights to have their ‘gender identity’ validated.

History will not view you kindly

OldCrone · 09/05/2021 16:59

It’s amusing how many men wilfully misinterpret the law & claim it’s a myth that women/girls have any rights to single sex spaces.

I think Robin actually claims that since male and female aren't defined in the various laws, 'male' and 'female' can mean whatever you want them to mean and women and girls don't actually exist as a separate category from men/boys.

Original poster
rogdmum · 09/05/2021 17:01

I can’t speak for English law, but I have more than one piece of correspondence written on behalf of ScotGov making it clear that affirming pupils as the opposite sex is a choice to be made by schools and that they are under no legal obligation to do so.

So- you could to argue whether or not it is kind to do so, but that’s not law.

OP posts:
Trixie78 · 09/05/2021 17:16

Today 14:10RobinMoiraWhite

TheShadowyFeminist

Regrettably this guidance is based on the same incorrect assumptions and misreading of the Equality Act as AEA presented in court last week. It is, IMHO, partisan, incomplete and misleading, and if followed would be likely to cause a school to be acting unlawfully towards gender diverse children and young people.

Another bold claim.

Specifically, where exactly does the guide 'misread & make incorrect assumptions' about the EA2010? A vague hand wave that the guide "would be likely to cause a school to act unlawfully" doesn't really convince anyone.

Give us the details and arguments that back up your opinion. This is a discussion forum - we're all capable of discussing this. General claims without evidence don't persuade anyone.

Happy to. Dealt with in the 'Education' Chapter of 'A Practical Guide to Transgender Law' due out in about ten days.

Ok we'll just ignore you then until the book comes out 🤔🤔🤣

Trixie78 · 09/05/2021 17:18

Not that I intend to read it tbh, I don't do fiction.

2fallsagain · 09/05/2021 20:22

I believe Robin works with stonewall so not exactly unbiased.

Erikrie · 09/05/2021 20:30

Not that I intend to read it tbh, I don't do fiction

I like some fiction. Harry potter is fabulous. As is JK Rowling. ♥️ Although she was never pretending that Hogwarts was real.

ChristinaXYZ · 09/05/2021 20:35

Regrettably this guidance is based on the same incorrect assumptions and misreading of the Equality Act as AEA presented in court last week. It is, IMHO, partisan, incomplete and misleading, and if followed would be likely to cause a school to be acting unlawfully towards gender diverse children and young people.

Well crowd fund and take it to court then - test it and see if it gets withdrawn like the CPS and Oxfordshire CC advice then. I am all for the clear light of day on this. If you genuinely believe it is unlawful take it through the proper channels.

Changemusthappen · 09/05/2021 20:51

Thank you, I will send this to my DCs school this week.

spongedog · 09/05/2021 21:01

I did wonder if Robin had "an interest" so that's why I politely asked! Shame they haven't been back.

theThreeofWeevils · 09/05/2021 21:29

@Floisme

Oh has Robin got a book coming out? Grin
You'll have to look quite closely: it's currently identifying as a coat-rack.
AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 09/05/2021 21:36

it's currently identifying as a coat-rack.

(falls about laughing)