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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

New School Guidance from Sex Matters and TransgenderTrend

140 replies

rogdmum · 09/05/2021 07:41

Great to see this!

Tailored version for Scotland as well

sex-matters.org/posts/updates/schools-guidance/

OP posts:
Leafstamp · 10/05/2021 16:12

@OldCrone

I agree that what Robin posts here seems very unprofessional OvaHere, but I don't think people are particularly intimidated. Robin's arguments seem very weak, consisting mainly of 'you're wrong, read my book to find out why', and most recently asserting that sex doesn't actually exist.
I'm a professional and I think Robin's twitter account is also highly unprofessional IMO. My lawyer friends agree.
Whatstheweatherlike · 10/05/2021 17:40

Swerving the derail caused by the shameless plugging of a book by it's author Hmm this is a very welcome and clear guide for schools. Safeguarding should always be the highest priority in schools without exception. It's also reassuring to read as it's pretty much what we already do within our school (and our safeguarding procedures are robust). Our head is very big on ensuring that protected characteristics are always correctly listed and covered within any relevant lessons.

As someone who deals with safeguarding day in, day out, the guidance is clear and yes I know exactly where it will be filed in our school. Any other safeguarding leads out there feeling similar? I have to say, I always question the motivations of anyone who objects to safeguarding being a priority...

TheFleegleHasLanded · 10/05/2021 18:23

Some people do like to insert themselves into inappropriate places:

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/stonewall-legal-ethics/comments

SunsetBeetch · 10/05/2021 18:33

[quote TheFleegleHasLanded]Some people do like to insert themselves into inappropriate places:

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/stonewall-legal-ethics/comments[/quote]
That's pretty shocking.

HecatesCatsInFancyHats · 10/05/2021 18:52

[quote TheFleegleHasLanded]Some people do like to insert themselves into inappropriate places:

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/stonewall-legal-ethics/comments[/quote]
OMG

fishareboring · 10/05/2021 18:59

Wow.

Floisme · 10/05/2021 19:11

Oh my.
Boundaries, Robin, boundaries.

OvaHere · 10/05/2021 19:56

Seems like my instincts further up this thread were correct. Very unprofessional for the opposing counsel to engage with Allison in this way.

stonecat · 11/05/2021 00:38

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Ollinica · 11/05/2021 02:17

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ANewCreation · 11/05/2021 17:39

Thank you for highlighting this helpful resource.

When a male 16 year old friend of my daughter's began to identify as trans (and a lesbian) in y11, their school was unsure how to proceed - they'd only had females identifying as trans before - and decided to take advice from Mermaids and Stonewall about how to handle any issues that might arise.

They had a whole year celebration assembly for this student where the teachers were emotional and praised everyone for warmly accepting this student as a girl. The male pupil was now in the girls' PE lessons, though fortunately these were non- contact sports by this stage, and, although they were given a separate place/toilet to change, on at least one occasion they tried to come into the girls' changing rooms after PE to 'find their water bottle' and sometimes popped into the girls' loos as they were 'nearer'.

In mentioning these incidents to the DSL, I reminded the school that they were the safeguarding experts, not these organisations, and that above all else, normal rules for safeguarding should still apply for all pupils. I think the DSL would have found it useful to have this resource.

Going back to the earlier discussion around:
the 'incorrect' assumptions that male=male, female=female, girl/woman=female, boy/man=male.
And that some people may prefer "to interpret the Acts imagining that male can mean female, girl might mean boy, woman might mean man etc and vice versa".

Having now read through most of the committee stages of the Equality Act in Hansard, it is very noticeable that it is always the definitions male = male, female=female, girl/woman=female, boy/man=male, women = female of any age which are consistently used and intended and never the latter neo-definitions.

So what is the driver for changing the 'real' meaning of words for a 'pseudo-real' one? What are the consequences of change? Why is it so jarring when the ability of women and girls to preserve a single sex space - even linguistically - is questioned? Why does it matter if Stonewall conflates sex and gender, so homosexuality becomes 'same gender' rather than 'same sex' attraction? Or considers that a man or boy may be female or male and a woman or girl be male or female? And what might be the implications for safeguarding if we embrace such 'social fictions'?

I thought this might have some resonance once again:

"Pseudo-realities are, simply put, false constructions of reality. It is hopefully obvious that among the features of pseudo-realities is that they must present a plausible but deliberately wrong understanding of reality. They are cult “realities” in the sense that they are the way that members of cults experience and interpret the world—both social and material—around them. We should immediately recognize that these deliberately incorrect interpretations of reality serve two related functions. First, they are meant to mold the world to accommodate small proportions of people who suffer pathological limitations on their abilities to cope with reality as it is. Second, they are designed to replace all other analyses and motivations with power, which these essentially or functionally psychopathic individuals will contort and deform to their permanent advantage so long as their pseudo-real regime can last.

Pseudo-realities are always social fictions, which, in light of the above, means political fictions. That is, they are maintained not because they are true, in the sense that they correspond to reality, either material or human, but because a sufficient quantity of people in the society they attack either believe them or refuse to challenge them. This implies that pseudo-realities are linguistic phenomena above all else, and where power-granting linguistic distortions are present, it is likely that they are there to create and prop up some pseudo-reality. This also means that they require power, coercion, manipulation, and eventually force to keep them in place. Thus, they are the natural playground of psychopaths, and they are enabled by cowards and rationalizers. Most importantly, pseudo-realities do not attempt to describe reality as it is but rather as it “should be,” as determined by the relatively small fraction of the population who cannot bear living in reality unless it is bent to enable their own psychopathologies, which will be projected upon their enemies, which means all normal people."

newdiscourses.com/2020/12/psychopathy-origins-totalitarianism/

Further discussion here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4169150-Pseudo-realities-Power-and-Language-Games?pg=1

TinselAngel · 11/05/2021 17:48

So Robin is no longer willing to offer expertise for free on Mumsnet? Shame.

Erikrie · 11/05/2021 18:17

So Robin is no longer willing to offer expertise for free on Mumsnet? Shame.

Aww, don't worry, almost guaranteed Robin will be turning up again in the future ( once this thread has dropped down the page) to provide advice to the women here 😉

Floisme · 11/05/2021 18:29

Maybe once the book has been published Robin will have a bit more time to stick around and answer questions.

soberodent · 12/05/2021 14:00

wow this is genuinely disgusting. horrifying propagandistic anti-science rhetoric designed solely to make life as awful as possible for trans children, who apparently don't have enough of a hard time already

soberodent · 12/05/2021 14:00

wow this is genuinely disgusting. horrifying propagandistic anti-science rhetoric designed solely to make life as hard and awful as possible for trans children, who apparently don't have enough of a hard time already

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 12/05/2021 14:07

Far better to make it harder for girl children,. who apparently don't have enough of a hard time already.

OvaHere · 12/05/2021 14:15

Anti -science is misleading children into believing they can actually change sex and not recognising what impact this has on those children and their fellow pupils, especially girls.

Floisme · 12/05/2021 14:35

From what I can see, it's designed to help schools balance the rights of trans children with those of all other children, particularly girls. I have no idea why some people deny that there is any potential for conflict.

soberodent · 12/05/2021 14:46

@OvaHere wow dude let me go ask my endocrinologist, multiple therapists and various other medical professionals im in contact with if science validates transgender people real quick. i cant tell u their answer for sure but spoiler alert i dont think its very sympathetic to your position tbh

theThreeofWeevils · 12/05/2021 14:54

No human being has changed sex or ever can. Endocrinologists are pretty clear on that point.

theThreeofWeevils · 12/05/2021 14:54

No human being has changed sex or ever can, soberode. Endocrinologists are pretty clear on that point.

Erikrie · 12/05/2021 15:03

wow this is genuinely disgusting. horrifying propagandistic anti-science rhetoric designed solely to make life as awful as possible for trans children, who apparently don't have enough of a hard time already

Do you not think girls should have rights too then? I believe that all children should be safeguarded. Not just one type of child. Clearly you don't agree with that. And your position on this is truly genuinely disgusting horrifying propagandistic anti-science rhetoric designed solely to make life as awful as possible for girls.

Hope this helps.

soberodent · 12/05/2021 15:10

@OvaHere wow dude let me go ask my endocrinologist, multiple therapists and various other medical professionals im in contact with if science validates transgender people real quick. i cant tell u their answer for sure but spoiler alert i dont think its very sympathetic to your position tbh

soberodent · 12/05/2021 15:14

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