GRA Reform, Legal Self Declaration, has no effect on access to spaces

[ool0n]

I'm wondering given the recent convincing defeat of gender critical ideology in the high court vs EHRC - if the Mumsnet gender critical people finally accept the fact that having a GRC has no effect on access to spaces?

People on the other side of the debate like myself have been explaining to GC people on Twitter for years that having a GRC has no effect on access to spaces so their objection to GRA reform is/was unfounded. I/we based this on -

1. English government legal analysis that stated having a GRC has no effect on access to spaces
2. Scottish government legal analysis ... ditto ...
3. The EA 2010 and GA 2004 text
4. The practical impossibility that a BC (Not an ID document) could be of any use in deciding access

now we have

1. Gender critical crowdfunded challenge to EHRC guidance that says having a GRC has no effect on access to spaces. Comprehensively lost, not even passed the very low bar to even be considered for a Judicial Review.

Given this is the case will gender critical people be reevaluating their assertion "Self ID", as in GRA Reform, must be opposed as it effects access to spaces? Trans people have always been able to "Self ID", in the colloquial sense, into men's and women's spaces. So making it easier for trans people to change their birth certificates only helps them, has no effect on GC feminists, and/or cisgender women and spaces.

(I also wonder if there'll be any introspection as to why an obviously incorrect interpretation of the law was able to become so prevalent in gender critical circles. Maybe listen to groups outside of GC circles a bit more?)

[quote stonecat]@sanluca

Yep. I posted way down the thread asking about women's prisons, rape crisis centres, domestic abuse shelters, changing rooms etc

The OP never responded. [/quote]
Of course he didn't respond to an actual question requiring a reasoned answer. He just wanted screenshots for his pandering virtue signalling on Twitter.

'What a great point, you can be sure the BBC, Guardian, etc, etc would have reported on it if there had been any positive spin for GC ideology here.'

Absolute nonsense. You've entirely proved my point.

The mind boggles as to why people come and make such fools of themselves in such a public way.

Embarrassing isn't it. No sense of decency. Or pride.

@BlueLipstickRocks

You had to use women's spaces to get a GRC, two years living "in role" is a requirement to get a GRC. Debbie Hayton says she uses women's spaces and she has no GRC. The view you espouse isn't even followed by the few trans people who follow GC ideology.

You do NOT need to use womens spaces to get a GRC. How many times do I need to say this. Are you really going to argue with me over GRC requirements????

Debbie Hayton still has a penis I believe and according to an article they wrote a self confessed AGP. Is that who you want to hold up as your shining example? A person with a penis who us AGP?

Debbie isn't representing my side, she's the gender critical no1 go-to transgender person. You are saying even she isn't "good enough" for the gender critical?

You are saying you never used a woman's space, loo, changing room, until you got a GRC? And hence Debbie is wrong to use those spaces? (By the way she considers all trans women to be "AGP", so she'd say that means you too)

What a great point, you can be sure the BBC, Guardian, etc, etc would have reported on it if there had been any positive spin for GC ideology here.

Well that's not true. Do you actually ever read any of their articles? Because it seems to me that you absolutely do not.

Debbie isn't representing my side, she's the gender critical no1 go-to transgender person.

And what is your side? As a cishet male with no skin in the game?

Ooooh a Twitter feed, I am old but I might be getting it...

When I was young, men compensated for lack of size or lack of hair (advancing age) by either trying for a much younger girlfriend or some sports car.

Do woke men post Twitter threads where they annoy women instead these days?

Judgement aside, in that case those men seemed to have more fun when I was young.

@stonecat

This obsession with "GC"

Many women on this thread don't apply the label "gender critical" to themselves. We're not a hive mind.

Clearly the trans activists aren't either however, as every one of your Twitter crew that comes on here makes contradictory statements to the next.

None of you can agree on definitions or causes or aims.

The women on these boards can all agree: self-ID is problematic and sex-segregated spaces should be fought for.

Well said stonecat

You are saying you never used a woman's space, loo, changing room, until you got a GRC? And hence Debbie is wrong to use those spaces? (By the way she considers all trans women to be "AGP", so she'd say that means you too)

I have had many conversations with Debbie and I can assure you they do not consider all TW to be AGP.

If Debbie has a penus which I am pretty sure they do then yes, they are wrong.

You have manipulated what was being said. You said a GRC required a TW to use womens spaces which is incorrect.

As to my own use I have NEVER used a changing room since I transitioned at all and the only times I have used women's spaces are in environments with those who know me and its always by consent.

@lonel

Apologies if ive missed it, but it is just a yes/no Apparently it's just fine as long as their intentions are good. Don't worry, the OP can tell taps side of nose.

Aaah gotcha

OP there’s this amazing thing called empathy where we consider things from the point of view of others

Using your empathy why might some women prefer single sex toilets?

The irony that someone who pretends to be so inclusive and up for debate, and caring towards little children, uses a blocker on twitter developed by a convicted child rapist.

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

🧁

OP, why might some women prefer single sex toilets

Debbie isn't representing my side

What exactly is "your side" OP?

Heterosexual man, who is also not trans, who doesn't care for women's needs for single sex spaces, and wanders in to women's spaces irrespective of how that makes these women feel? Not listening to women, disregarding them, berating them?

Is your side misogyny?

Is your side misogyny?

You’ve hit the nail on the head methinks as regards the OP.

@stonecat -- "The women on these boards can all agree: self-ID is problematic and sex-segregated spaces should be fought for."

Excellent, something they all agree on. Where is the data for this? We have Ireland, Iceland, Portugal, Argentina, all with legal self ID. Where is the data that backs up their beliefs? There should be plenty of it right? Showing poor outcomes for women in countries with legal self declaration...

No response on his misinterpretation of last week’s ruling either I see

But good heavens I don’t want to distract the OP, he’s probably got a busy programme of touring the changing facilities in his local ladies toilets planned, so I’ll just get straight to my question

Why might some women prefer single sex toilets?

@stonecat

I'm currently wondering why some most women prefer single sex toilets?

I wonder if the OP knows.

He has all the answers

He’s sure to know the answer to this one

Tell some ladies what to think, do

@SirVixofVixHall

The irony that someone who pretends to be so inclusive and up for debate, and caring towards little children, uses a blocker on twitter developed by a convicted child rapist.

Oh dear, calling the person who runs @terfblocker a convicted child rapist now! This is I believe based on a quite bizarre set of events where Aimee Challenor (Not a convicted child rapist), shared her own block list once via blocktogether. And for some reason she needed, in the fantasy of some gender critical conspiracy theorists, her Dad to do this - he is a convicted child rapist. No evidence for this, no explanation why she needed him to tick "Share blocklist" on blocktogether.org website.

The perfect distillation of why I could never take the GC movement seriously, while it entertains such bizarre and obviously false disinformation.

Showing poor outcomes for women in countries with legal self declaration... How about you prove it's not harmful rather than just experimenting on women?

Hmmm. I wonder why some women might prefer single sex toilets?