GRA Reform, Legal Self Declaration, has no effect on access to spaces

[ool0n]

I'm wondering given the recent convincing defeat of gender critical ideology in the high court vs EHRC - if the Mumsnet gender critical people finally accept the fact that having a GRC has no effect on access to spaces?

People on the other side of the debate like myself have been explaining to GC people on Twitter for years that having a GRC has no effect on access to spaces so their objection to GRA reform is/was unfounded. I/we based this on -

1. English government legal analysis that stated having a GRC has no effect on access to spaces
2. Scottish government legal analysis ... ditto ...
3. The EA 2010 and GA 2004 text
4. The practical impossibility that a BC (Not an ID document) could be of any use in deciding access

now we have

1. Gender critical crowdfunded challenge to EHRC guidance that says having a GRC has no effect on access to spaces. Comprehensively lost, not even passed the very low bar to even be considered for a Judicial Review.

Given this is the case will gender critical people be reevaluating their assertion "Self ID", as in GRA Reform, must be opposed as it effects access to spaces? Trans people have always been able to "Self ID", in the colloquial sense, into men's and women's spaces. So making it easier for trans people to change their birth certificates only helps them, has no effect on GC feminists, and/or cisgender women and spaces.

(I also wonder if there'll be any introspection as to why an obviously incorrect interpretation of the law was able to become so prevalent in gender critical circles. Maybe listen to groups outside of GC circles a bit more?)

I am that man

Define man.

@lonel

wouldn't be happy for a man, woman or enby to follow my daughter into an enclosed space when they have no reason to Struggling to understand this. How would you know what their intent was??

They're following my kids into a space? Now if they just happened to be using them then what's the issue?

I am confused, why would you take them to the women’s when they needed changing? Why not the men’s?

@WoolOfBat

I am confused, why would you take them to the women’s when they needed changing? Why not the men’s?

Check comment above, it was sexist places that only had facilities in the women's.

was a bad father for that as they might see gasp a penis gasp

Women don't want to see your penis dude.

Define man

Did you miss the original post? Trans women have and always will self identify into spaces

Did you miss my earlier post? I have personal experience that contradicts this

So it must be on a case by case basis until we can get this sorted out. Fine

No male without a GRC has any business in the ladies toilets. Don’t be afraid to make that clear at work if you need to

Did you miss the original post? Trans women have and always will self identify into spaces.

This is very much a new phenomenon. It us disingenuous to suggest anything else. You conflate transgender and transsexual.

They're following my kids into a space? Now if they just happened to be using them then what's the issue?
Wow. But you won't be there. How do you know what their intentions are? Why do you think we have single sex spaces in the first place?

@Huggybear16

I am that man

Define man.

I am. If you don't agree I'm a man and believe me self identifying as one then I can't help you there.

My husband has changed multiple nappies in his lifetime and never once thought to do this in a Women's loo. Is it just me finding this odd?

I am still confused. Someone takes little girls into the men’s (doesn’t matter if they see penises) but does not want them to change in front of men...

So instead this male goes into the women’s when they change (where he can look at women)?

Did I get this wrong?

I am. If you don't agree I'm a man and believe me self identifying as one then I can't help you there.

That’s not a definition.

Can you define ‘man’?

How do you know you are one?

@ANewCreation

My husband has changed multiple nappies in his lifetime and never once thought to do this in a Women's loo. Is it just me finding this odd?

Definitely not just you.

My DH would use boot/back seat of car, or just a quiet outdoor floor space.

Would you be fine for some strange woman or enby to follow your child into the toilet? I'm assuming you wouldn't for a man to

Do you not know how the ladies bogs work?

@lonel

They're following my kids into a space? Now if they just happened to be using them then what's the issue? Wow. But you won't be there. How do you know what their intentions are? Why do you think we have single sex spaces in the first place?

You said they were following my children into a loo. Both my kids have used loos with strangers in there, or going in and out, but anyone obviously following them would be a concern. Regardless of gender.

No, into the loos, not the cubicles.

@ANewCreation

My husband has changed multiple nappies in his lifetime and never once thought to do this in a Women's loo. Is it just me finding this odd?

Not just you

In the kind of pubs that didn’t have changing facilities in the loo I’ve used a discreet floor area or gone outside. It never occurred to me to check for a changing table in the gents

@WoolOfBat

I am still confused. Someone takes little girls into the men’s (doesn’t matter if they see penises) but does not want them to change in front of men...

So instead this male goes into the women’s when they change (where he can look at women)?

Did I get this wrong?

You seem confused, changing facilities means nappy changing. There were none in the mens as there was a sexist assumption women would be doing all the changing. Have you ever tried changing a baby on a dirty floor vs perfectly good changing faciilities in a loo? Always use the changing facilities, as anyone can use any loo, women in mens, men in womens. Absolutely nothing stopping you.

So you're happy for a male to go in the women's toilet whilst your young daughter also goes in, on her own. That works for you yes?

Your question implies bad intent as you meant it to

Nope, not into trick questions

If you like we can pretend that its my husband popping in their for some obscure reason

He’s lovely, wouldn’t cause an issue at all

Absolutely nothing stopping you

Apart from consideration for others

Oh right, that doesn’t stop the OP

But of course male sexual predators can't enter the women's loo unless they have some elaborate cover story such as "I'm trans!". Which will immediately put everyone at ease as there is no issues with trans people who don't pass using the facilities they want. So it's a perfect cover! (Some sarcasm may be detected in this comment)