Wipeout for Labour in Hartlepool

[EmbarrassingAdmissions]

Given the landslide in Hartlepool, will anything make Labour think again about the way in which they've alienated their core voters (including women)?

Many people are Tory because they think the capitalism it promotes as a political philosophy is the best system for everyone. I think they're wrong, but that's a difference about the best way to a good outcome, not a difference between the good guys and the bad guys.
Well said. Students (and others who never grew up) might enjoy shouting "Torieeeees are eeeeevil" but in reality virtually all politicians want the same things for society (health, happiness, prosperity etc.), they just disagree on how best to achieve it.

*Emily never used any epithet at all. It was David Cameron and the media who put words in her mouth. Had that photo and comment been tweeted by a Conservative or UKIP, no-one would have batted an eye, probably would even have reacted with approval.

I actually think Emily Thornton’s biggest mistake was acknowledging the tweet at all. She should have done what less honourable politicians do and just ignored the fuss until it died down. That strategy has worked wonders for Boris Johnson, after all!*

This isn't the case. She posted it on Twitter and it blew up there, before it was picked up on by senior Tories. There was much discussion at the time about the disconnect between ordinary voters and the "liberal elite" ahead of Brexit - so it was misguided if it wasn't intentional.

The council estate where Emily Thornberry grew up is ...

Bellfields?

I do wonder sometimes quite how the recent votes might have gone had labour not (seemingly intentionally) alientated women as much as they have. Its possible the results would not have looked too much different, but I do feel a significant change in stats might have occured around the time they started witchhunting and kicking members out for caring/speaking about womens rights..and then it never got any better..

I know a lot who didn't vote Labour this time as they say Starmer is basically a Tory though. Among those I know, it sems thats more likely to be the reason, however I suspect women are less likely to give their reasons if its chance to lead them to be doxxed and abused for doing so..

NRFT but I don't know that Labour is losing their heartlands because of identity politics. I think they are just generally totally disconnected from what their ex-core voters want in life.
I know a very wide range of people, just by virtue of having been raised in one type of environment, travelled a lot, had a lot of jobs, so I talk to people from all walks of life, and the middle class lefty types (who make up a big chunk of Labour) generally have the wrong idea about the working class, which I see reflected in Labour comms:
Basically Labour see the working class as "vulnerable", in need of welfare and protection. They look at poor people and talk about safety nets and benefits, (which people DO need, and God knows the last 10 years has been carnage in their services that provide that support), BUT they never talk about aspirations, helping small business, getting ahead. The idea is that the poor will be looked after, but not elevated. They can have safety (as long as they do what they are told), but not big dreams.
I am not saying this is necessarily Labour policy, but it is the way Labour come across.
In reality, working class people don't only care that their Universal credit is paid on time, they also care about having their own small business, buying a house, being able to get a good job. Yanno, just like middle class people! We all want the same things ultimately-good income, good schools, nice house, safe communities.
NOT that I would vote Tory, but I can see why people did, because the sense with the new style Tories is that they are pragmatic, where as the current Labour lot just seem to see the Working class as an unruly mob who need "educating" and can't think for themselves.

@PermanentTemporary

Sakura that makes perfect sense. It's also noticeable that there was a very low turnout suggesting a lot of people withdrawing their vote rather than swinging enthusiastically for the Conservatives.

When you say a "very low turnout", isn't that normal for by-elections where the governing party has a clear majority so the result wouldn't be changing anything? I wouldn't read too much into it.

In the meantime openly GC independent councillor Sarah Field romps to a decisive victory in Leeds. Proof that women can speak out and win.

@godwingolly

regarding why Labour lost the vote, I live near here and the Labour candidate was responsible for removing all A&E Services from Hartlepool which meant the nearest A&E was either North Tees in Stockton, or James Cook in Middlesbrough.

Commissioning of NHS services are not in the control of constituency MPs). Maybe he supported it, but he really won’t have been responsible. The local NHS Trust to do the standard shifting of beans that the modern NHS has to appear to be ‘efficient’ will have done that. They will have consulted with that council, local MPs, CCGs etc.

He was the commissioner who co-authored the report which recommended closure.

@ PermanentTemporary

Thank you for your reply to the Message posted at 20: 36 on 08 May

It would be wonderful to possess the technological knowledge to perform complex operations on the Internet but that is not the case due to a total deficiency of such ability and so at all times for good or ill every word is - tragically - 100% 'Velvetcloud'

I'm baffled by the suggestion that Bellfields is some kind of no-go area. It's perfectly fine. It just happens to be on the less convenient side of the A3 in a town with plenty of highly desirable areas.

The fact that now Emily Thornberry now lives in a splendid London townhouse and sees Bellfields as Guildford's inner city hellhole is telling.

Here is a more realistic take on Emily Thornberry's actions. Unbelievably arrogant Labour MP and all the worse coming from that sort of background.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/11/emily-thornberry-resigns-shadow-cabinet-over-tweeted-picture-st-george-flags

We all want the same things ultimately-good income, good schools, nice house, safe communities.
NOT that I would vote Tory, but I can see why people did, because the sense with the new style Tories is that they are pragmatic, where as the current Labour lot just seem to see the Working class as an unruly mob who need "educating" and can't think for themselves.
I agree with you.
I'm working class by background but middle class by current profession and what has annoyed me this week is that my social media is full of middle class labour supporters claiming that the reason Labour lost out in this round of elections is because they aren't left wing enough, we need Corbyn back etc.
I entirely agree with them that working class heartlands voting Tory is like turkeys voting for Christmas and think anyone who believes Johnson cares about the working classes is foolish, but Labour need to sell a positive image for the country and have a bit more aspiration and can do about them.

There's space for a centre left party who care about equality, opportunities, want to invest in public services, are against cronyism, and want an alternative to Johnson socialism for the rich but austerity for the poor. Labour need to be that party instead of only listening to Momentum style fringe movements who are out of touch with most working families.

@SunsetBeetch

Thank you for your reply to the Message posted to this thread at 20:36 on 08 May

Composing a Message to send to a thread which had been dormant for two hours at the time of writing last evening, it was necessary to include a few ridiculous, stupid, controversial remarks in the hope of evincing a reply - it is akin to cartographers inserting islands that do not exist on the surface of the Earth but if they appear in a rival publication then it is known that a breach of copyright has occurred

We could pretend that all the good people of Hartlepool are educated to Degree standard and are at the forefront of the information revolution but on 23 June 2016 they were in the vanguard of the movement to expel from Britain thousands of skilled professionals who had decided voluntarily to dedicate their lives and service to the United Kingdom

It was the case during the earlier part of the 2000s that people from the nations of the European Union migrated to Britain and many of them were young women who were appointed to posts in science and technology by prestigious Universities and various Institutions and on 22 June 2016 they were on the precipice of leading their nation to a new era of innovation and invention and a golden age of unparalleled prosperity for the United Kingdom but within two days the certainty of their status was removed

It ought to be an obligation on the people of Hartlepool to provide people of equal calibre to replace anyone who chooses to leave Britain and return to their native land or elsewhere in the European Union or go to the United States

It may be the case that the 19 year-old young woman from Hartlepool who could take "Love Island" as a specialist subject on "Mastermind" and fail an interview for a job at Lidl is an outrageous caricature but she is the type of person who has to take responsibility for her town and her nation

Why?

It is because her family have resided in Hartlepool for 50 generations and she can live thee if she wishes or circumstance dictates but in any case to the end of her days

It is a question of making a contribution

It does not matter if in the years after the Second World War it was
a Doctor from India or a Teacher from Pakistan or an Accountant from the West Indies or that in the Third Millennium it was an engineer from France or a chemist from Italy but if they arrived in the United Kingdom there was a section of the population which was going to regard them as infiltrators who should be repatriated and ought not to be treated with even basic respect and consideration could not be given to the beloved pretty Hindu seamstress who made a home and rendered advice, assistance and care to neighbours and members of a local community or a short-statured Sikh labourer who hauled sheets of steel every day in a foundry so that the nation could enjoy an economic boom during the 1950s and 1960s and liberated Ringo Starr to use brushes on a drum-kit when touring with the Beatles rather than to sweep the floors in a factory in Liverpool

Britain may claim justly to have improved the lives of people around the world but it could be accompanied by an insufferable stiff-necked pride and treating decent, honourable human beings as if they were scum based on race, ethnicity, colour, national origin o any such premise is not a savoury attitude

It has been the case that since 23 June 2016 the politics of Britain is similar in some respects to that of Vichy France because a multitude of opinions can exist theoretically but there is a framework to which everyone has to conform and it is a question of semantic management

Liz Truss serves Britain as our inestimable Secretary of State for International Trade and on 05 May of the past week she signed an agreement with India which is worth apparently £1,000,000,000 to the economy of the United Kingdom

It happens to be the case that in many nations of the world trade is controlled by central governments so if Ms. Truss can sign 500 agreements per annum on the terms arranged with India then Britain may not incur too much by way of financial loss by withdrawing from the European Union

Intending not to criticise but the reasons why people vote as they do have become increasingly disparate and whereas at a time in history it was possible to categorise support for the Labour Party - for example - as 'intellectual' and for belief by conviction or as 'instrumental' in the hope of some personal benefit or advance yet in many areas of Britain on 23 June 2016 it seemed to congeal into a single sentiment which tended to disprove that there had been ever any genuine attachment to ideals that were progressive, radical and liberal

It should not be a dilemma for liberals in Britain and around the world when confronted with a certain type of atavistic politics that has come to be in vogue - we have not been mistaken in our idea that there should be freedom from persecution and equal justice for everyone and that we have to recognise our common humanity and thereby solve our problems but we must be prepared to challenge the opposing point of view and identify and denounce any attempt to compromise with the lowest common denominator whether in Hartlepool or Huddersfield or Hull or anywhere else that is concerned about a scarcity of hurricanes

I think Labour's increasing share of the vote in the wealthy shires and the Tories increasing share in post industrial ex labour heartlands says a lot about the direction of travel of the Labour Party.

Condescending much VELVETCLOUD?

Wtaf

No wonder they keep losing.

@LolaSmiles

We all want the same things ultimately-good income, good schools, nice house, safe communities. NOT that I would vote Tory, but I can see why people did, because the sense with the new style Tories is that they are pragmatic, where as the current Labour lot just seem to see the Working class as an unruly mob who need "educating" and can't think for themselves. I agree with you. I'm working class by background but middle class by current profession and what has annoyed me this week is that my social media is full of middle class labour supporters claiming that the reason Labour lost out in this round of elections is because they aren't left wing enough, we need Corbyn back etc. I entirely agree with them that working class heartlands voting Tory is like turkeys voting for Christmas and think anyone who believes Johnson cares about the working classes is foolish, but Labour need to sell a positive image for the country and have a bit more aspiration and can do about them.

There's space for a centre left party who care about equality, opportunities, want to invest in public services, are against cronyism, and want an alternative to Johnson socialism for the rich but austerity for the poor. Labour need to be that party instead of only listening to Momentum style fringe movements who are out of touch with most working families.

But Hartlepool voted Labour twice under Corbyn - by a huge margin in 2017 and by a somewhat smaller one probably explainable by Brexit in 2019.

2017: Ambitious left wing manifesto under Corbyn - huge win.
2019: Ambitious left wing manifesto under Corbyn hampered by unpopular Brexit policy - win.
2021: Much more centrist leader makes big show of distancing party from Corbynism and says nothing ambitious at all - massive loss.

And you, like the Labour spin machine, conclude from this that Labour's problem is Corbynism and being too left wing, and they must remain centrist where the votes are? That simply contradicts any honest reading of the evidence.

And you, like the Labour spin machine, conclude from this that Labour's problem is Corbynism and being too left wing, and they must remain centrist where the votes are? That simply contradicts any honest reading of the evidence.

But your assessment relies on the assumption people actually read manifestos. I think this might be mistaken.

HecatesCatsInFancyHats
"I think Labour's increasing share of the vote in the wealthy shires and the Tories increasing share in post industrial ex labour heartlands says a lot about the direction of travel of the Labour Party."

Plus the 46 seats in London, more than any other party. They have become increasingly "Londoncentric", leaving the traditional heartlands feeling abandoned. Now, the heartlands are abandoning them.
I wonder if and when the penny will drop?

So wait Fifteentoes - you think Hartlepool voted Tory because Labour was too centrist?

Typical! The singularity happens and I was eating me tea and missed it.

@unwashedanddazed

Typical! The singularity happens and I was eating me tea and missed it.

The left in every country has an existential problem is that if they do genuinely tackle poverty and people elevate their economic circumstances then they tend to become more politically conservative, and this the left if they are competent will actually diminish their own votes. That’s why all of this commitment to social justice is a godsend as they can virtue signal, criticise the right till the cows come home, but not really contribute to meaningful change. I’m not just bashing the left for the sake of it. Policies like the NHS have been an absolute godsend to all of us for which we should all be eternally grateful to Labour for securing. However the Labour of old is long gone and for it to be relevant again they need to have more substance beyond mere activism and attempting to generate maximum grievances between the haves and the have nots.