Trans Widows Escape Committee 5: And so it continues...

[TinselAngel]

Welcome to thread 5. A virtual prize for anyone who can guess the geeky sci fi reference in the thread title.

This is a support area for women who are, or have been, in unhappy relationships with male partners who are transitioning, or exploring their "gender identity"

If you are in that position-

1. You are not alone
2. It is not a situation that you should be expected to tolerate, let alone celebrate.
3. There is always a way out, if you want it. The thread is called Escape Committee for that reason

Remember: women talking to each other is a powerful weapon!

In four years we have gone from starting the first thread, to launching a website, to be invited to give evidence to a government inquiry, which is pretty spectacular when you think about it.

Thanks to all the women who have told their stories and particularly to those who have stuck around to help others. Thanks also to @socialworker222 who remains nice cop, to my stern cop.

Do say hello to start the thread off!

I think it's possible she's legit and has just drunk a lot of the politically correct Kool Aid, as it were. I was like that at first, going to trans support group meetings and counseling with my ex and such. Until I realized I was just a prop in my ex's melodrama, and arranged the fastest possible divorce.

@QuinnMovesOn

I think it's possible she's legit and has just drunk a lot of the politically correct Kool Aid, as it were. I was like that at first, going to trans support group meetings and counseling with my ex and such. Until I realized I was just a prop in my ex's melodrama, and arranged the fastest possible divorce.

Yes but you didn't go straight to talking about penetration in your first post.

Yes but you didn't go straight to talking
about penetration in your first post.

@TinselAngel, haha, yes, that's quite true. Sex was definitely the very last thing on my mind, far far below things like wondering just how insane my ex was going to behave and figuring out how to take care of myself and my children in all of this madness.

I have no words that are printable.

Having to deal with the stbx and his family this weekend for one last familial commitment. Can't go into details because they are too identifying. I think I shall start playing the lottery so that I can be independently wealthy and just disappear where stbx can't find us.

Good luck with that Southern. Are they supportive of your ex? In-laws can be caught in a very difficult position, between 'blood is thicker than water' loyalty and a stbx daughter-in-law and grandchildren. Mine took the approach of telling me I must not divorce him, and then blaming me and the divorce, bizarrely, for the breakdown of arrangements. Not sure what they would have had me do, and I've thought about what I would do if that was my son, and I think it's perfectly possible to respectfully support both parties.

Yeah the bottom line is they'll always support their little Prince/ss.

My ex in laws talked ex out of a vasectomy because he "wasn't a dog being sent to the vet to be done" and if I didn't want yet more children I should be sterilised instead, yet embraced the gender reassignment surgery and breast implants only 5 years later.

They'll always be on their side.

@SouthernTW, I hope this "one last commitment" goes okay, and that you have some quiet time to heal before you're called upon to do anything similar again. For me, I know there will be very few times in the next few years when I'll have to interact with my ex again, and that's good.

MIL doesn't know why we are divorcing or anything about the tg issue. Just like the kids. MIL just knows we are divorcing. She is extremely conservative and I don't see this going over well with her. Part of me is glad that my beloved FIL has died because what his son is doing would have killed him.

I did my best to ignore stbx as much as possible. One more day until I can return home to my peace and getting on with my life with my children.

Hang on in there Southern. You're doing a good job of keeping everyone happy... when it emerges why you have divorced your MIL will doubtless feel sympathetic (mine rang me when she found out and said I must feel terribly betrayed!'... a few months later I was mysteriously the unreasonable person pursuing divorce for financial clarity and safety) even if she doesn't show it. I hope yours is more supportive when the dust settles.

I have just read Conundrum by Jan Morris and couldn't help noticing the enormous contrast between what James Morris decided to do and what is described here in too many cases. I wish moire were like James.

For a start, he did nothing concrete about his dysphoria until his children were old enough to handle it (though he did take some hormones for a few days, he decided not to continue them for some time thereafter, and disposed of them) and then he took ten years of gradual adjustment into his female persona so they had plenty of time to get used to him as ambiguous sexually. And when it became clear that in order to have surgery in England on the NHS to alter his sex as much as was possible he would have to get a divorce first, he and his wife discussed it and decided they didn't want that so instead of going via the NHS he went to a private doctor in the Middle East. (Which incidentally seems to have been a fairly horrific and painful experience, even though it made her happy in a way she hadn't been for quite a while.)

In other words he wasn't thinking only me-me-me; he was having some consideration for the wife and children he no longer felt able to stay as husband and father to. And she and his ex-wife do seem to have remained friends until his death: they got re-married once same-0sex marriage in this country became possible.

I wish so much that more men who needed for whatever reason to transition were more like that!

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime

I have just read Conundrum by Jan Morris and couldn't help noticing the enormous contrast between what James Morris decided to do and what is described here in too many cases. I wish moire were like James.

For a start, he did nothing concrete about his dysphoria until his children were old enough to handle it (though he did take some hormones for a few days, he decided not to continue them for some time thereafter, and disposed of them) and then he took ten years of gradual adjustment into his female persona so they had plenty of time to get used to him as ambiguous sexually. And when it became clear that in order to have surgery in England on the NHS to alter his sex as much as was possible he would have to get a divorce first, he and his wife discussed it and decided they didn't want that so instead of going via the NHS he went to a private doctor in the Middle East. (Which incidentally seems to have been a fairly horrific and painful experience, even though it made her happy in a way she hadn't been for quite a while.)

In other words he wasn't thinking only me-me-me; he was having some consideration for the wife and children he no longer felt able to stay as husband and father to. And she and his ex-wife do seem to have remained friends until his death: they got re-married once same-0sex marriage in this country became possible.

I wish so much that more men who needed for whatever reason to transition were more like that!

Well we only have Jan's side of the story. If we ever heard the wife's side there's every chance it would be different.

Yes, it's a shame she never wrote a book. Women in this position are far less vocal about the experience than their ex-partners it seems...

Donovan Cleckley and I talked a bit about Jan Morris and the idea of transition as a heroic journey here:

www.womenarehuman.com/these-chains-that-have-no-name-interview-with-trans-widows-voices/

Thank you!

I did hear an interview with his wife, a while ago, but of course there is no reason to think she was being truthful about her feelings.

Anyhow, my feeling remains as wishing that all men transitioning in their thirties or forties showed a bit less total disregard for their wives and children, on the whole.

Anyhow, my feeling remains as wishing that all men transitioning in their thirties or forties showed a bit less total disregard for their wives and children, on the whole.

Oh yes, I'd agree with that. It's just I'm dubious about making any individual transitioner a shining example, because if there's one thing these threads have shown it's that what goes on behind the scenes is very different to what is presented to, and by and large accepted by, the world.

They'd do well to follow Morris's "on stage" example, in any case! A far cry from what is recounted here, that's for sure.

However they go about it, it has an impact on the wife and family, and that is what we aim to support and amplify here.

Because I think that if we set up any transitioner here as "this is how it should be done", we contribute not only to the silencing of the wife of that individual, we also run the risk of any other trans widow who is thinking of posting here, changing their mind about doing so in case somebody says "well your husband has done his best".

Even if that were the case it still causes hurt, confusion, and damage.

I don't think there are any shining examples of this. Author Jennifer Boylan and her wife staying together in a sexless marriage, primarily for the sake of their children? With Deirdre Boylan describing herself as "a saint" for having done so? I told my ex that I was completely unwilling to be a part of anything like that.

The best example would be one who did not create a transwidow in the first place. Seeing more examples each day even outside of this situation where it is put upon women and children to change around their existence to suit a man’s preferences/decisions/whims etc.

I’ve been fortunate with MIL. She has been very supportive and brought to light a lot of long standing behaviors of stbEX (not related to transition) that actually helped me see it wasn’t just in my head. Of course would have helped to know just how much of his presentation was a sham even beyond transition business but well no time machines.

Agreed that the focus here is the support of women and their children if there are any. There are countless places everywhere to support the husband but very few like here that I’ve found that offer support to the wife in a meaningful way.

Interestingly, when J Morris was in London, J Morris still stayed at the gentlemen's Club of which J Morris was a member. A club which did not allow women to be members. A club which barred women members. Yet, for some reason the club and J Morris seemed to agree that this bar was not pertinent in J Morris' case. Mysterious, huh? It just has me scratching my head as to why the bar on women members never, ever applied to J Morris throughout their entire life.

I imagine the irony was not lost on J Morris' ex wife.

Tish's Twitter thread about Elizabeth Morris is worth reading:

twitter.com/STILLTish/status/1346494257784381442

Gosh, there seems to rather a gushing article on how altogether marvellous J Morris was.

This snippet may elucidate Elizabeth Morris' opinion. this sex-change thing – so-called – happened

Interesting from the newspaper article on how J Morris seems to think that their children are as a result of J Morris' sperm as the creator and Elizabeth just moulded them. Did they know that sperm aren't just little human beings who simply need a place to grow?

Also, how simply everyone was confused when J Morris said they reported on the Mt Everest expedition and everyone bewildered at the contradiction of an apparent woman doing that. Even queenie all confused as she normally needs someone to explain things to her. She may be the head of state, but only a woman for all that.

It is the biggest load of indulgent tosh, in my humble view.

• I don’t think you are alone - anyone would find this impossible.

Somewhere someone wrote an article about why this sort of misuse of language is like rohypnol with one of the effects being the mental confusion and fog it causes.*

Absolutely an accurate comparison. It’s the same thing. Like when someone takes cocaine for a couple of days with no sleep. That does a similar thing to your memory too when you’ve been awake too long.

Sorry for the late reply. I didn’t think I was best placed to get drawn into the recent intrusion. I am shocked someone would interject like that using the language she did considering we were literally just talking about how it effects us mentally.

To anyone else who wishes to interject. Please don’t. You are abusing us. The reason we don’t do it back is because we know you will need us one day and we don’t wish to make it difficult for women to come back in future.

If you are reading these threads you are already on your way out. I was. I was reading discussions on the relationships board telling myself mine wasn’t like that.

The fact is. When I truly believed he wasn’t like that, I wasn’t taking part in these discussions because there was nothing to discuss.

The same as now I’m engaged and in a healthy relationship I’m not out there looking for anyone else’s opinion.

@TinselAngel

Because I think that if we set up any transitioner here as "this is how it should be done", we contribute not only to the silencing of the wife of that individual, we also run the risk of any other trans widow who is thinking of posting here, changing their mind about doing so in case somebody says "well your husband has done his best".

Even if that were the case it still causes hurt, confusion, and damage.

In which case I can only apologise. I was simply snared by the contrast between the personal horrors reported here (and which I absolutely believe) and the attempt at least to be a bit less horrible.