Caitlyn Jenner OPPOSES trans girls competing in girls sport

[hm246]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9533463/Caitlyn-Jenner-says-OPPOSES-trans-girls-competing-girls-sport.html

@LazyHorizon

Exactly . You can vote for a political party and still strongly disagree with some of their policies . In fact I would think most people when they vote dont blindly follow everything within that party .

And even with your friends and family you don’t agree with everything they do or say .

This “alignment” tribal idea is all part of the ongoing dumbing down of debate. People are divided into goodies (the left) and baddies (Tories/Republicans, corporate leaders, right wing celebrities) and all your opinions need to line up with your chosen team, otherwise people’s heads explode.

I am pretty damn left wing, but would be screamed at by most people in my (creative) industry for being a fascist if I admitted I am GC.

What happened to nuance? Logic? Discussion? Complexity?

Males have a biological advantage over females. Males are not females.

@wroxie

Absolutely not true.

I bet if I read a lot of your posts I would agree with some and not others . It actually would be foolish to deny that we can look at individual subjects rather than the bigger picture .

@GreyhoundG1rl

A debate, eh? Is that allowed?

Yeah, it's not actually a debate. It's the Mermaids Inclusivity person.

A lot of hyperbole, no facts.

Not aligning with Jenner. However it is a conversation that is needed. And as a high profile trans woman who was also an athlete she is also in an excellent position to comment.

As an interesting aside when the Nike Vaporfly shoe was released it has been found to give a 4-8% advantage to athletes that wear it. A lot of athletes (Male) shouted it was unfair that they were unable to wear due to their sponsorship deals. It is quieter now that other companies are making this type of shoe. (Kipchoge has worn these in his sub two hour marathon)

In women's sports transwomen are likely to have more than a 4% advantage, yet they have to suck it up.

@TheWeeDonkey

There's going to be a debate about it on Sky News at half past.

I just mentioned this to DH, he says it will be a short conversation

So far ... it’s a wee bit one sided (maybe due to the interviewee being from Mermaids).

Ah...

Also perhaps it depends on the sport, thinking about it. Men playing women at rugby could have disastrous consequences. Boxing? Karate? Seems incredibly dangerous. Athletics would be very unfair.

Something like archery? Gymnastics? Bowling? Maybe not so much.

People online are calling CJ a hypocrite because she plays golf with women. Perhaps there’s a more of an even playing field in these sports. It’s not reliant on strength as much perhaps? There are other skills involved.

If we cancel debate we are in a very slippery slope .

I actually thought it was incredibly irresponsible. Talking loud and saying nothing, and set DH off on a mega rant.

Male , female and ? Oh I don’t know a word that would be completely inoffensive

How about male, female and "people who think being male or female is irrelevant". But "open" covers it too.

The results in the open category would surely reveal once and for all whether it does matter...

@2021ismyyear

Is that competitive golf for medals though ? And golf is a game always played by mixed groups unless at competition level ? A bit like tennis .

So yes I agree in some “ sports “ it would not matter . Like darts

@WindyPudding

And three sets of changing rooms and toilets as well .

I hate to bring that subject back but it would show acceptance and choice . Would it keep people happy though ? If they are proud of their choices then in theory it should .

People online are calling CJ a hypocrite because she plays golf with women. Perhaps there’s a more of an even playing field in these sports. It’s not reliant on strength as much perhaps? There are other skills involved.

But does she play off the ladies’ tees?

There is definitely a male advantage in golf - club head speed and driving distance for instance.

Wroxie - Your trans panic has turned many of you into single issue voters who will support the very worst politicians based on their stance on trans issues

Trans panic? Umm I'm actually trans and think CJ is speaking sense on this issue, despite my opinions on what they're like as a person or their politics. Even a broken clock can tell the right time twice a day.

Something like archery? Gymnastics? Bowling? Maybe not so much.

Someone on another thread posted the recommended bow 'draw weights' (I think that was the term) for different sized men and women. A large woman would be recommended the same as a small, lighter, man iirc.
Gymnastics... massively different strength, flexibility, etc. I mean that of all sports is the one with the most completely different range of disciplines within it.

This is who you choose to align with.

Of course not. Agreeing with what someone says is not aligning with everything else about them. I am glad CJ has said this as a prominent trans person AND successful athlete who is highly qualified to comment. I agree with the statement, just as I'd agree if Donald Trump said it, or even Pol Pot.

The alternative is to be so immature and petty that you would have to disagree with something true and factual that someone said just because you don't share their politics. That's a very silly look.

You're being used and played as fools. It would be funny if it weren't so destructive and so very, very sad.

That's exactly how I'd sum up trans ideology.

Do you really think it's more destructive and sad that a left-wing feminist agrees with one statement from a right-wing person, than that sporty girls everywhere might have to abandon their hopes of a sporting career, if this ideology continues to be believed?

By the way, this is a good source of stats for sport, males and females.

boysvswomen.com/#/

Actually, high school boys scores v female Olympic athletes.

See this is the thing, when it comes to sport there is absolutely no difference between male and female bodies, but when it comes to affirmation surgery gender reassignment surgery and the emphasis on 'passing' is essential to life.

So which is it?

Oh and if you think agreement on one point means alignment, then supporting transgenderism would align you with some unsavoury characters indeed.

Disregarding the views of someone who has very relevant, direct experience of participating in sports at a high level, and of being trans seems like a sort of 'pro trans panic' response.

And three sets of changing rooms and toilets as well.

Agreed - or since it's a minority, one single special toilet or small changing cubicle, like the disabled toilet, for those who aren't happy going in the facility for their sex.

It would then cost no more money/space than providing for disabled people, and I think that's a reasonable solution.

This is who you choose to align with.

Lol. It's not a requirement to agree with someone on all of their beliefs in order to agree with one or more points. Although if CJ also confirmed that they believe women's spaces and safeguards are important and that they would fight to uphold that position, then that would be quite a vote winner ☺️