Lesbian Visibility Week

[ASugarr]

As Lesbian Visibility Week comes to an end, I want to make a quick reminder that
ALL LESBIANS ARE VALID!

Cisgender and Transgender women can be lesbians. Transgender men who date women don't consider themselves lesbians. All Lesbians deserve visibility!

Additionally, many have stated that they don't wish to date transgender people. That's fine! Just because someone is in the same dating pool doesn't mean you MUST be attracted to them. Plus genital preference is also totally fine! But don't forget, trans women are women so please do not degrade them just because you personally don't wish to date them.

Plus, let's continue to educate one another on the important information. Like preventing STI's as a lesbian, domestic abuse in lesbian relationships and how to deal with that, safe and consentual sex between lesbians. This is what we need to be educating young lesbians and bisexual women on.

Have a fabulous long weekend all 🤍🌈

I hope purgatory doesn’t mind me reposting these important accounts here.

PurgatoryOfPotholes posted 29/04/2021 15:24

‘I noticed the topic of sexually coercive social pressure on lesbians has been touched on up thread, and some naïve advice has been proffered.’

‘For those previously unaware of the scale of the issue, I've taken the liberty of collecting some accounts.’

‘TW: experiences of homophobia, lesbophobia and racism.’

‘account’

"I’ve been officially out as a butch lesbian since the early 00’s (and my fam knew before then, like it was a surprise to no one even as a kid in the 90’s lmao). I’m black and the community I grew up in is/was super religious. I mean old school FIRE AND BRIMSTONE FOR SINNERS kind of shit.

"The opposition I faced with that is nothing, N-O-T-H-I-N-G compared to the hatred, contempt, and homophobia encountered when dealing with the trans community. I have been fighting this fight for years only to be told I’m lying. No waaaay a man would really tell you to suck dick and a bunch of women would cheer them on and blame YOU for not being inclusive it’s happening. No waaaay that’s true!

"Oh, you have proof?

"Well, um, those aren’t REAL transwomen.

^"Really? Not a single one of those people is a “real” transwoman?: lesbian-rights-nz.org/shame-receipts/^

"I have lost so many friends, some of them whom I’ve known since elementary school, to this cult. People who watched me get jumped and bullied in school numerous times, literally spit on at protests, and disowned by a huge chunk of my family because I stood up for my right to marry another woman someday. They went on to call me a bigot, transphobe, TERF (ironically I’d never heard this term until I was called it), the list goes on.

"When we got the right to marry and could no longer be denied other basic rights in the US, I figured the next logical step would be to focus on homosexuals in other places where they are still in literal danger; I assumed we would listen to them and see what we could do to help them obtain those rights too.

"Instead we ended up with this. Instead I had to fight the same exact fights again, but this time against the people who were once my friends.

"For a little while, I was spared some viciousness compared to white women because BLM was the hot take and no one wanted to be perceived as a racist. I watched the nicest woman I knew, who fosters animals and children and literally would not hurt a fly, be called Karen and told to kill herself while the aggressor was cheered on. All because she didn’t want to have sex with a male.

"As for my former immunity, that’s not been the case for a while. I have been called the N-word and other slurs while my own friends are only concerned I don’t “misgender” the person using them."

I saw a starfish pull its own arm off when I was a child, I was traumatised.

Eew. I think I would have been too. Poor starfish!

I'm interested OP in your definition of woman and female
You are wrong but in a previous post you claimed woman is the gender (it only is in the minds of those who follow a certain ideology)
And female is the sex. Hooray. We have a word to describe us that doesn't include males
On the other lesbian visibility thread it appeared that female no longer means the female sex but can include males
Which is it? Lesbian is same sex attracted. There are other words for those who are same gender attracted

@Doyoumind

ASugarr why not start some threads about the issues in your last paragraph then rather than being goady?

Because the whole thing interlinks. It's important to include a lot of the recent issues lesbians are facing. That including transphobia in the LGBTQ community. The other thing are subjects I've noticed personally with young people and have been common questions during the week.

Out of interest, is there any reason why you didn't post this on the actual LGBT topic?

Putting it in FWR could appear to some that you are trying to goad women into a bunfight, which I'm sure is not your intention...

Eew. I think I would have been too. Poor starfish!
I have no idea why it did it, it was in a rock pool on a beach, so it wasn’t like it was captivity stress. Maybe it just wanted to test the theory that it could grow a new arm, and that the arm could grow a new it.

@WhoNeedsaManOfTheWorld

I'm interested OP in your definition of woman and female You are wrong but in a previous post you claimed woman is the gender (it only is in the minds of those who follow a certain ideology) And female is the sex. Hooray. We have a word to describe us that doesn't include males On the other lesbian visibility thread it appeared that female no longer means the female sex but can include males Which is it? Lesbian is same sex attracted. There are other words for those who are same gender attracted

You can think I'm wrong. That's fine. However this is the reality today and deserves to be discussed. If you as a lesbian doesn't date trans women then that's fine. Good for you. However many disagree. And many (as you would say) female with female relationships aren't lesbians because transgender men are born female, but aren't women.

@HamsterV2

Aren’t lobsters like vampires, immortal unless murdered? Or am I thinking of starfish?

I think that's starfish. Their genes closely resemble humans too iirc

Sea sponges regenerate when chopped up, so if you want to get rid of one chopping it up will create more.

Too right. A reminder, and not an opinion, that my boy cat can now be classed as a lesbian. Identity rather than material reality, amirite.

Better give her a special visibility breakfast.

Can the it grow a new arm though, or is it just that the it can grow a new arm? I didn't know that about starfish, but I've always been surprised that flamingoes can live for 70/80 years.

Another from the other thread as these are important and increases the visibility of what lesbians are encountering in 2021. Which is actually what ‘visibility weeks’ are about!

Not just wearing badges!

PurgatoryOfPotholes 29/04/2021 15:28

Another account

TW: homophobia, lesbophobia, blackmail

account

"A few years ago, I used to play a MMORPG in which I joined a LGBT guild because I wanted a place where I could be myself without risking being harassed or bullied if people found out that I am a lesbian. I had a great time in this guild and made a lot of friends.

:About 3 months after I joined, a transwoman in the guild sent me a private message in-game asking if I would be interested in dating her. I politely declined. She asked if it was because she was trans and I said yes. I tried to explain as nicely and politely as possible that I just can’t deal with penises, male bodies, and male voices. I just can’t find them attractive, especially penises because just seeing them brings up memories of when I was raped as a child. She demanded that I date her anyway and threatened to tell everyone in the guild that I was transphobic if I didn’t. She also demanded that I send her nude pictures of myself. I refused. I took screenshots of the chat log just in-case, logged off, and went to bed feeling awful.

"While I was asleep, the transwoman did exactly what she said she would do. She told the guild’s leader that she asked me for make-up advice and that I responded by saying she could never look like a real woman and that I had called her a bunch of slurs. When I turned my PC on the next day, I was greeted by a message from the guild leader in the guild’s group chat on Skype (this was before Discord existed) that I was going to be removed from the guild because of my alleged transphobia. I denied it and a few of the other members came to my defense, saying it didn’t seem like something I would do, as I was always very friendly to everyone. I sent the screenshots of the chat log thinking it would clear my name, since she straight up said she was going to lie about me. Instead of focusing on that, the discussion shifted to me refusing to date her. I was told, by people that had been my friends for months, that my “genital preference” was transphobic and that I should just get over my trauma or just kill myself. I was told that even if I am not attracted to her, I have to date her to affirm her identity as a trans lesbian. I was given an ultimatum, date her or be removed from the guild. I refused and was kicked out.

"From that point on, I was bullied by my former guild-mates whenever we happened to come across each other in-game. When I joined a new guild, the transwoman and the leader of my old guild found out. They messaged the leader of my new guild and told him that I was a racist and was using hacks. This was shortly after there was an outbreak of hackers using an exploit in the game to delete parts of another player’s character data causing their characters to become corrupted and unable to be logged into (great Korean free-to-play MMO security pretend-thumbs-up-emoji) and there was quite a bit of paranoia amongst the community because of it. I was kicked from that guild too. The in-game bullying continued for a bit and I eventually quit a few weeks later.

"I was bullied in school for being a lesbian when I made the stupid mistake of reading a lesbian romance manga in class. The internet was my escape from that, where I could be myself without being afraid. I’ve tried to join other LGBT and lesbian focused communities on sites like reddit but ever since that incident with that MMO guild and similar things I’ve seen happen to girls on places like /r/actuallesbians, I have been afraid to admit that I don’t find transwomen attractive. I’m afraid to tell my LGBT-supporting friends, no matter how close we are or how long we’ve been friends. I’ve tried using dating sites and it seems like most of the lesbians on there are predatory transwomen that demand sex. I’ve been feeling pretty lonely and depressed, often thinking about suicide.:

oursuperstories.com/i-was-given-an-ultimatum-date-her-or-be-removed-from-the-guild/

@TabbyStar

Can the it grow a new arm though, or is it just that the it can grow a new arm? I didn't know that about starfish, but I've always been surprised that flamingoes can live for 70/80 years.

I love flamingoes, they’re so extra with their pinkness and their parading they do.

[quote Helleofabore]Another from the other thread as these are important and increases the visibility of what lesbians are encountering in 2021. Which is actually what ‘visibility weeks’ are about!

Not just wearing badges!

PurgatoryOfPotholes 29/04/2021 15:28

Another account

TW: homophobia, lesbophobia, blackmail

account

"A few years ago, I used to play a MMORPG in which I joined a LGBT guild because I wanted a place where I could be myself without risking being harassed or bullied if people found out that I am a lesbian. I had a great time in this guild and made a lot of friends.

:About 3 months after I joined, a transwoman in the guild sent me a private message in-game asking if I would be interested in dating her. I politely declined. She asked if it was because she was trans and I said yes. I tried to explain as nicely and politely as possible that I just can’t deal with penises, male bodies, and male voices. I just can’t find them attractive, especially penises because just seeing them brings up memories of when I was raped as a child. She demanded that I date her anyway and threatened to tell everyone in the guild that I was transphobic if I didn’t. She also demanded that I send her nude pictures of myself. I refused. I took screenshots of the chat log just in-case, logged off, and went to bed feeling awful.

"While I was asleep, the transwoman did exactly what she said she would do. She told the guild’s leader that she asked me for make-up advice and that I responded by saying she could never look like a real woman and that I had called her a bunch of slurs. When I turned my PC on the next day, I was greeted by a message from the guild leader in the guild’s group chat on Skype (this was before Discord existed) that I was going to be removed from the guild because of my alleged transphobia. I denied it and a few of the other members came to my defense, saying it didn’t seem like something I would do, as I was always very friendly to everyone. I sent the screenshots of the chat log thinking it would clear my name, since she straight up said she was going to lie about me. Instead of focusing on that, the discussion shifted to me refusing to date her. I was told, by people that had been my friends for months, that my “genital preference” was transphobic and that I should just get over my trauma or just kill myself. I was told that even if I am not attracted to her, I have to date her to affirm her identity as a trans lesbian. I was given an ultimatum, date her or be removed from the guild. I refused and was kicked out.

"From that point on, I was bullied by my former guild-mates whenever we happened to come across each other in-game. When I joined a new guild, the transwoman and the leader of my old guild found out. They messaged the leader of my new guild and told him that I was a racist and was using hacks. This was shortly after there was an outbreak of hackers using an exploit in the game to delete parts of another player’s character data causing their characters to become corrupted and unable to be logged into (great Korean free-to-play MMO security pretend-thumbs-up-emoji) and there was quite a bit of paranoia amongst the community because of it. I was kicked from that guild too. The in-game bullying continued for a bit and I eventually quit a few weeks later.

"I was bullied in school for being a lesbian when I made the stupid mistake of reading a lesbian romance manga in class. The internet was my escape from that, where I could be myself without being afraid. I’ve tried to join other LGBT and lesbian focused communities on sites like reddit but ever since that incident with that MMO guild and similar things I’ve seen happen to girls on places like /r/actuallesbians, I have been afraid to admit that I don’t find transwomen attractive. I’m afraid to tell my LGBT-supporting friends, no matter how close we are or how long we’ve been friends. I’ve tried using dating sites and it seems like most of the lesbians on there are predatory transwomen that demand sex. I’ve been feeling pretty lonely and depressed, often thinking about suicide.:

oursuperstories.com/i-was-given-an-ultimatum-date-her-or-be-removed-from-the-guild/[/quote]
That's why we need to continue the discussion so that this doesn't continue to happen. Similarly to the danger and abuse transgender men and women face with lesbianism and the misconceptions.

I will confirm beyond doubt. I will hold a bit of cat crack a dreamy and call her/him. I will say, 'who's a lesbian, then'. If boy cat comes running, that shall be confirmation.

Cisgender and Transgender women can be lesbians. Transgender men who date women don't consider themselves lesbians. All Lesbians deserve visibility!

ASugarr keeps forgetting that while she and some other women might choose to call themselves ‘cisgender’ most of us on here view the concept as sexist & offensive, so she’s either misgendering us all repeatedly (isn’t that a bannable offence?) or denying visibility to lesbians who don’t believe in gender. I’m not sure which. Either one is a dick move IMO.

Jellyfish!!!! Immortal jellyfish have many ways to reproduce, but can also reverse their reproductive cycle and (in theory) continue to age, un-age, endlessly!

@EmpressWitchDoesntBurn

Cisgender and Transgender women can be lesbians. Transgender men who date women don't consider themselves lesbians. All Lesbians deserve visibility!

ASugarr keeps forgetting that while she and some other women might choose to call themselves ‘cisgender’ most of us on here view the concept as sexist & offensive, so she’s either misgendering us all repeatedly (isn’t that a bannable offence?) or denying visibility to lesbians who don’t believe in gender. I’m not sure which. Either one is a dick move IMO.

Well if you don't consider yourself cisgender or transgender then can you give a word for suggest what you are? Because cisgender is being a female woman and transgender is being anything else.

Don't call me cis, ASugarr. That's a friendly request.

@ArabellaScott

Don't call me cis, ASugarr. That's a friendly request.

I didn't.

ASugarr I find your tone masculine and patronising. It's like you are saying "Hey ladies, here's where you are a wrong and so I'm going to correct you. You're welcome!"

It's exactly like mansplaining.

You have said before that you are female. This comes as a surprise to me because I thought you were male from the way you write.

Well if you don't consider yourself cisgender or transgender then can you give a word for suggest what you are? Because cisgender is being a female woman and transgender is being anything else.

I’m sure there used to be a word for those people. Someone help me out. Wumben? Wimpund? Woomud

So do you agree that female is sex not gender?

That's why we need to continue the discussion so that this doesn't continue to happen. Similarly to the danger and abuse transgender men and women face with lesbianism and the misconceptions

And that is why I asked for specific examples Sugarr. Because all we are seeing is a whole lot of self-congratulatory posts and tweets and lots of virtue signaling.

And a whole lot of redefining of the word lesbian when lesbians have not agreed. Considering the discrimination lesbians have faced in the LGBT community since the very start, I would think that anyone supporting females would have a great deal of sensitivity around making sure the voices of females who are same we’d attracted is amplified and elevated over other people on a week such as this.

So, let’s turn this thread into a thread about how to support females who are same sex attracted (this is a feminist board after all) and stop this abuse with actions. Talking aimlessly around the topic doesn’t seem to be working.

@Fromage

ASugarr I find your tone masculine and patronising. It's like you are saying "Hey ladies, here's where you are a wrong and so I'm going to correct you. You're welcome!"

It's exactly like mansplaining.

You have said before that you are female. This comes as a surprise to me because I thought you were male from the way you write.

Okay. What's wrong with being a masculine woman?

@WhoNeedsaManOfTheWorld

So do you agree that female is sex not gender?

If we are talking about biological sex then yes. However legally trans women are female.