Trans lesbian?

[Timeforatincture]

My first ever post on this board. Long time reader, and have found it highly educational. Thank you everyone.

There is a pullout in today's Guardian about influential lesbians. Cameos and longer pieces. One of the longer pieces is an interview with a "trans lesbian."

AIBUin thinking that's a bit odd?

@334bu

*When did I ever say that? I didn't.*

So you agree that transwomen cannot be lesbians and that lesbians can only be female people sexually attracted exclusively to other female people.

I believe that trans women can be lesbians, yes.

@sunavendi

You have not answered the 'intents and purposes' of a woman, biology aside other than 'living like a stereotypical woman'

So, what are the 'intents and purposes'? And please, pray tell, what does a man 'living like a stereotypical woman' look like?

*I am a lesbian for goodness sake. Just not a bigoted one.**
So it is bigotry to defend same sex attracted people against homophobia?
Believe what you want but don't deny people's existence,!

I am a lesbian for goodness sake. Just not a bigoted one.

Why are you speaking for all lesbians?

I am not speaking for lesbians. I never claimed to speak for lesbians.

Again, read the thread and you would be aware of where I am speaking from.

Lesbian is same sex attracted.

And people (of all sexualities) calling lesbians bigoted, because they wont date biological men is exactly the problem I have posted about.

So despite, people on here claiming lesbians aren't berated for not dating biological men, here you are with the proof that it happens.

@334bu

*I am a lesbian for goodness sake. Just not a bigoted one.** So it is bigotry to defend same sex attracted people against homophobia? Believe what you want but don't deny people's existence,!

That's not what you've done here. You have been undeniably transphobic. Please refer me to when I have denied the existence of anybody?

Have you not denied the existence of lesbian trans women?

A huge part of attraction is biological sex, so yes their genetic make up.
Lesbians attracted to butch women who dress and act masculine have been slated for decades, ‘why do they look like men?’ ‘Why do lesbians want someone who looks like a bloke?’ Etc etc

Because underneath it all they are WOMEN regardless of how the may present themselves.

You are a transphobe and a bigot. The views you are expressing are more damaging than trans women identifying as lesbians.

Pot kettle comes to mind.

You know what it means. Again, I'm not explaining ridiculous, obvious things to you. Or questions that can be answered with some research.

I do not know what it means. And you are unable to answer.

You are a transphobe and a bigot. The views you are expressing are more damaging than trans women identifying as lesbians.

Really? Don't make me laugh. You resort to name calling because you cannot answer questions.

Some interesting questions on this thread.

WHY do you care if someone lives their own life as a woman?

In my area there there are two services for survivors of sexual violence. A specialist trans service and a women's service that is staffed by and used by trans women. This means if a woman gets raped or sexually assaulted in my area there is no female only support for her. She is obliged to discuss her rape in front of someone male.

Why do you care?

I care about women who have been raped or sexually assaulted getting the help they need. Why DON'T you care?

Why do you care what is between someone's legs or what organs they posses?

I am a lesbian and have spent my entire life being pressured by people who possess penises to be intimate with them. The answer is no. And if they identify as a woman? Still no.

It is absolutely none of your business.

I really wish it wasn't but TRAs seem hell bent on making it my business.

@sunavendi

Have you not denied the existence of lesbian trans women?

I think we've already established that there's no such thing.

Sex matters.

sunavendi you've called people on this thread bigots and transphobes.

Why is that?

Have you not denied the existence of lesbian trans women?

Lesbian has a legal definition in the Equality Act and it does not include anyone born male. I do not deny the existence of transwomen, however as the Equality Act states they are not lesbians. It is not bigoted to say this, it is just a fact

Sunavendi:

But this isn't just about biological sex, can you not see that?

It's all about biological sex. To be a lesbian you have to be female and have XX chromosomes. Male people with XY chromosomes can't be lesbians.

Straight men identifying as lesbians is exactly, exactly like a white person identifying as black. It's appropriating the identity of a traditionally oppressed group. It's homophobic and misogynistic.

I and the other lesbians on this thread have been really clear with you and still you argue. You would, I hope, say that a white person can't just declare that they identify as black and expect to be accepted as black. You can see, I'm sure, the profound offence involved in doing that. Well, it's exactly the same when you say that a man can identify as a lesbian. It's a hate crime against lesbians.

Lesbian spaces disappearing has been an issue for a long time, largely imo, because lesbian culture is a little bit different to gay male culture, and it's not just because the advent of the so called translesbian.

But when I tried dating apps like Her after coming out, it was fairly horrifying to be presented with a string of obviously male people liking me etc. Sure, I could swipe, but I could do that on any dating app, and it just felt like a reminder of my sexuality being a male fetish.

I decided to leave well alone, and I've got no appetite to revisit the scene of my pre-conversion therapy youth, particularly given what appears to be the prevailing attitude that being same sex attracted is something to keep quiet about to avoid offending people, but have had the good fortune to meet and fall in love with a woman away from the 'LGBTQ+ community'. She's not even part of the 'GC movement', and neither am I any longer, because I reached my limit of being reminded that people can be shits and women always get the sharp end.
We've both talked about how much we understand the motivation of young transmen and non binary females both those who are lesbian and those who are straight and who just want to check out of the endless shit that gets thrown at women, and lesbians especially.
So I will never be anything but accepting and sympathetic to female people, however they identify, and particular same sex oriented female people. If they don't want to be called lesbian, then fair enough, I don't force labels on people, but words still mean things.

Nice to see MN still welcoming threads where lesbians are constantly required to underline that no, males are not lesbians. It's like Roy Chubby Brown in a rainbow lanyard. Pride month indeed.

@WhiteFeministWarMachine

sunavendi you've called people on this thread bigots and transphobes.

Why is that?

I believe @sunavendi cannot answer the questions put to her in a logical way, so the response is to lash out and name call. I've been called worse than a transphobe. And @sunavendi opinion of me really does not bother me one bit.

I'm still waiting to read what these 'intents and purposes, biology aside, women' look like.

Looks like I'll have a long wait. Bless.

Absolutely Clarice99

Accusations of transphobia and bigotry bounce off because we're neither.

And because we're right.

You would, I hope, say that a white person can't just declare that they identify as black and expect to be accepted as black. You can see, I'm sure, the profound offence involved in doing that. Well, it's exactly the same when you say that a man can identify as a lesbian. It's a hate crime against lesbians.

This.

And nice to see you FloralBunting 👋 have missed your posts. Good to know you have fallen in love with a woman, that has made my evening.

Straight men identifying as lesbians is exactly, exactly like a white person identifying as black. It's appropriating the identity of a traditionally oppressed group. It's homophobic and misogynistic.

x 100

Well said FloralBunting

I can't believe this is even a discussion TBH. As a straight woman I can see how this is pure undisguised male entitlement towards female sexuality, I'm reminded of a dog marking its territory.

@WhiteFeministWarMachine

Absolutely Clarice99

Accusations of transphobia and bigotry bounce off because we're neither.

And because we're right.

Thank you

We are right. And the questions posed cannot be answered in a coherent, non-defensive way which further evidences that people are buying into ideologies that are very damaging.

The poster, @sunavendi has displayed disability discrimination. I posted early in the thread that I was autistic. I require answers based on fact yet they came along and call me names instead.

Speaks volumes.

Discrimination of 2 protected characteristics of the Equalities Act.

Oh, and I haven't reported the name calling. I want it to stay so people can see the discrimination.

Clarice99

What a reach. I didn't even read that you were autistic. I am sorry I missed that but you and I both know I was not being discriminatory.

Someone in my life just texted me this quote:

*The surest way to work up a crusade in favor of some good cause is to promise people they will have a chance of maltreating someone. To be able to destroy with good conscience — this is the height of psychological luxury, the most delicious of moral treats.’

• Aldous Huxley*

This is what we're seeing here, isn't it? Virtue points for women who support men who identify as women, with the opportunity to kick lesbians and gay men thrown in. It's hate crime disguised as being progressive. One day I hope some of you here will remember this thread and feel some shame.

@speakout

Straight men identifying as lesbians is exactly, exactly like a white person identifying as black. It's appropriating the identity of a traditionally oppressed group. It's homophobic and misogynistic.

x 100

No it isn't exactly the same!!!! Do you understand how utterly offensive this is to the black community?