Trans lesbian?

[Timeforatincture]

My first ever post on this board. Long time reader, and have found it highly educational. Thank you everyone.

There is a pullout in today's Guardian about influential lesbians. Cameos and longer pieces. One of the longer pieces is an interview with a "trans lesbian."

AIBUin thinking that's a bit odd?

Lesbians are used to being used as a pawn or projection screen for straight people to play out their sexual fantasies on. It’s why many of us hated the Candy Bar many years ago, because it was full of straight couples looking to pick up a lesbian for a threesome.

I found this white illuminating.
Earlier on in the thread it was suggested that lesbian spaces failed because they were too exclusionary and there were not enough lesbians using them to sustain them on their own and therefore they needed to let men in to keep them going.
This post (which actually cites the same bar) would seem to suggest the opposite. That straight people "infiltrating" these spaces (for want of a better word) is what drove the lesbian clientele away.

When I posted making a parallel that a gay woman asking a straight woman out is comparable to a male bodied trans lesbian IDing person asking a lesbian out I was told that this was not a viable comparison because male bodied people pose more danger to women

Biological males do pose a bigger danger to women, than lesbians.

Another attempt at a derail.

None of this changes, that lesbian means same sex attracted. Transwomen have changed their gender, not their sex. So they are not lesbians.

"Quite illuminating" ffs

Finally, I note that the literature is also clear that the attempts at silencing discussion on IPV in same sex relationships is a contributory factor to the problem, and that is a real shame for my community.

And what is your community?

If you wish to debate this topic, why don't you start a new thread on it rather than trying to derail the ops?

It seems to me, that the attempted discussion on 'trans' lesbians is being silenced. By you.

Controversial, but I don't give two hoots:

I wonder how many trans men go into gay clubs and perv over guys kissing etc.. I WONDER how many trans women go into lesbian bars/clubs and get off on watching women kissing etc.

That is not intended to offend genuine trans women. However, my guess is that there will be some biological males identifying as females to meet their own sexual fantasies. In this current climate, they will be able to self ID as a woman and access anywhere they want to without being questioned/challenged/stopped.

Also, I wonder how many straight men would be okay if a trans woman comes onto them. . .

I wonder how many straight men would be fine dating a woman, only to find out that she's a trans woman, with male genitals?

The point is, I think it would be more acceptable and expected for a straight man to refuse to date a trans woman. The same with a gay man not wanting to date a trans man.

Does the same go for women or lesbians? Nope. We are then labelled as transphobes.

It's so wrong.

I think the fetishisation of lesbians by males (including trans 'lesbians') is worth a mention, because again it it very prevalent in lesbian groups. Some examples attached from males who identify as lesbians.

Can anyone please explain why this is okay?

You referred to a point made by another poster which said "This is where you're wrong, I've said in the thread I think it's awful if any lesbian woman has felt pressured to date a trans woman if she doesn't want to."....and went on to infer that any request to date from a trans lesbian to a lesbian should be considered an affront to gay women's sexual boundaries because they would not be interested in male genitalia.

My point is that, surely, in the same reasoning, any lesbian asking out a hitherto straight woman is guilty of exactly the same transgression - thinking that a straight women might be interested in a relationship with someone with female genitalia, and that suggestion is an affront to their sexual boundaries. They are surely completely disrespectful of straight women's boundaries? Surely in your reasoning, this is exactly the same problem?

Diversion tactics. Is there evidence that lesbians are going all out in their thousands to approach and try to pick up straight women by entering previously boundaried straight women's space and refusing to take no for an answer? No. Are straight women posting here or on Twitter or FB complaining that they hate being hit on by rampant lesbians? Not from what I've seen.

Stop trying to reposition lesbians as some kind of social menace: That's homophobic.

But there are hundreds, thousands, of lesbians complaining about the encroachment on

He thought he saw a Banker's Clerk
Descending from the bus:
He looked again, and found it was
A Hippopotamus.

She thought she saw a lesbian
Descending from a bus:
She looked again, it was a man-
No need to make a fuss!

The first is from The Mad Gardener's Song, by Lewis Carroll. The second's from The TRA Songbook.

"And that's how you define 'lesbian' ?" asked Alice. "How absurd!"
“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.” “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.” “The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that’s all.”

@Erikrie
It seems to me, that the attempted discussion on 'trans' lesbians is being silenced. By you.

This isn’t a discussion, it’s mostly just a thread of people repeating over and over ‘trans women are men’, ‘lesbians are same sex attracted and can’t be attracted to trans women’, like some kind of mantra. And ‘disagreeing’ is not the same as ‘silencing’.

And ‘disagreeing’ is not the same as ‘silencing’.

Derailing is certainly an attempt at silencing.

[quote Helen8220]@Erikrie
It seems to me, that the attempted discussion on 'trans' lesbians is being silenced. By you.

This isn’t a discussion, it’s mostly just a thread of people repeating over and over ‘trans women are men’, ‘lesbians are same sex attracted and can’t be attracted to trans women’, like some kind of mantra. And ‘disagreeing’ is not the same as ‘silencing’.[/quote]
We keep repeating it because certain people seem to think lesbian is a word that has varying definitions. It doesn't.

We keep repeating it because certain people seem to think lesbian is a word that has varying definitions. It doesn't.

Absolutely. Stop trying to change definitions and then we can stop having to repeat actual facts. Easy.

Quite! Lesbians are adult human females attracted to other adult human females

Men however they present are not and never can be lesbians

This isn’t a discussion, it’s mostly just a thread of people repeating over and over ‘trans women are men’, ‘lesbians are same sex attracted and can’t be attracted to trans women’, like some kind of mantra. And ‘disagreeing’ is not the same as ‘silencing’.

No disagreeing is showing your homophobia because transwomen are not female and therefore can never ever be lesbians.

Wearing my feelings on my chest today

Utter madness that this thread is even a conversation, never mind one of this length. How anyone can say that biological males can be lesbians is absolutely crazy. A male presenting in a female gender role is still a male, people cant actually change sex, it’s really really simple.

"Wearing my feelings on my chest today

Is this a subconscious acknowledgement that male transwomen are not really female?? DRAG

Lol. Gender, what a drag? Yes it is drag. A performance. Fake. Not based in reality. Glad that's been acknowledged anyway.

Ooh, that reminds me - where is the best place to get a 'Woman - Adult Female Human' bag or t-shirt?

This isn’t a discussion, it’s mostly just a thread of people repeating over and over ‘trans women are men’, ‘lesbians are same sex attracted and can’t be attracted to trans women’, like some kind of mantra. And ‘disagreeing’ is not the same as ‘silencing’.

If you'd stop making irrational, unscientific, homophobia and misogynistic assertions based on gender ideology then us lesbians and lesbian allies could stop pointing out the obvious to you — transwomen are men. When you stop, we'll stop.

Ooh, that reminds me - where is the best place to get a 'Woman - Adult Female Human' bag or t-shirt?

Ooh, 'standing for women' do a great line in adult human female merchandise. All for a great cause at well 👍😉

@erikrie fab, thanks. Will have a look!

Here's the link here 👍

www.adulthumanfemale.store/

This isn’t a discussion, it’s mostly just a thread of people repeating over and over ‘trans women are men’, ‘lesbians are same sex attracted and can’t be attracted to trans women’, like some kind of mantra.

Pretty sure repeating factual statements doesn't constitute a mantra. Look to the gender identity ideologues for a better example of a mantra.

The branded dog whistle! 😆