Page 12 | Trans lesbian?

Timeforatincture · 2021-04-26T17:39:44+00:00

My first ever post on this board. Long time reader, and have found it highly educational. Thank you everyone. There is a pullout in today's Guardian about influential lesbians. Cameos and longer pieces. One of the longer pieces is an interview with a "trans lesbian." AIBUin thinking that's a bit odd?

334bu · 19/06/2021 21:37

I never said that!!!!!
So you don't think transwomen can be Lesbians?

sunavendi · 19/06/2021 21:37

[quote Clarice99]@sunavendi

I refuse to repeat myself again

Here's the thing, you're not repeating yourself. You're not answering any questions in a coherent, logical fashion. You're just being defensive and in doing that, you're not providing ANY answers to any of the questions.

I'm still waiting for your answer to 'intents and purposes, biology aside, of a woman'.[/quote]
Yes, I am repeating myself. How many times have I refused to educate you on why what you have said is offensive to the black community?

sunavendi · 19/06/2021 21:38

@speakout

sunavendi I refuse to repeat myself again. I am NOT going to educate you on this. Please do some research for yourself.

I have tried to "educate" myself on this idea for a few years- I have not found any answers. I am guessing you don;'t have any either.

That's fine if you "guess" that. Not my fault, not my problem.

sunavendi · 19/06/2021 21:38

@334bu

*I never said that!!!!!* So you don't think transwomen can be Lesbians?

I believe they can identify as lesbians yes.

334bu · 19/06/2021 21:40

This reply has been deleted

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YellowFish12 · 19/06/2021 21:41

Yes, I am repeating myself. How many times have I refused to educate you on why what you have said is offensive to the black community?

And what you’re saying is offensive to a huge proportion of the lesbian community.

joystir59 · 19/06/2021 21:41

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Trevsadick · 19/06/2021 21:41

I believe they can identify as lesbians yes.

How when they are not women who are same sex attracted.

Its based in Sex, not gender. Lesbian is not about gender.

Transwomen sex is male and they are attracted to people whose sex if female.

So not lesbians.

People change genders, they do not change sex.

Shedbuilder · 19/06/2021 21:41

Sunavendi, you haven't explained why a white person identifying as black is a terrible thing while a straight man identifying as lesbian isn't. You keep saying it's not the same thing — but why not?

I want more from you. I want you to do me the courtesy of explaining your thoughts in detail rather than just exclaiming. Tell me so that I can understand you better. I've tried to be be really clear and I've spelled out exactly why a male person can't be a lesbian. Please tell me why you think a male person can call legitimately call themselves a lesbian and not cause offence.

Just saying 'I believe' and 'the majority of people agree with me' isn't enough. I've explained to you several times, in clear language, how lesbian sexual orientation is defined and protected by law. All I'm asking you to do is explain your thinking in the same clear way. Give it a go.

speakout · 19/06/2021 21:43

sunavendi
That's fine if you "guess" that. Not my fault, not my problem.

But you are engaging in discussion- but not open to talk about a valid point.??

Clarice99 · 19/06/2021 21:44

@sunavendi

Yes, I am repeating myself. How many times have I refused to educate you on why what you have said is offensive to the black community?

You haven't refused to educate me as I did not ask the question re: white person identifying as black person. I suggest you read the thread.

My question has repeatedly been asked re: your statement:

intents and purposes, biology aside, of a woman'.

You have repeatedly failed to answer this question as well.

RTFT

HappyGoLuckyLuLu · 19/06/2021 21:53

I mean, in the way that gender isn't considered binary anymore, surely a lesbian woman's attraction or not to a TW is also not binary (or gay man to TM). We need to move away from rules of what is or isn't as absolutes and be accepting of personal preference across a spectrum as the norm - one individual person's preference and perhaps not finding some groups attractive should just be accepted as personal preference and should not be seen as being anything-phobic. Sigh.

334bu · 19/06/2021 22:02

mean, in the way that gender isn't considered binary anymore, surely a lesbian woman's attraction or not to a TW is also not binary (or gay man to TM). We need to move away from rules of what is or isn't as absolutes and be accepting of personal preference across a spectrum as the norm - one individual person's preference and perhaps not finding some groups attractive should just be accepted as personal preference and should not be seen as being anything-phobic. Sigh.

Bollocks. Sigh

Clarice99 · 19/06/2021 22:05

@HappyGoLuckyLuLu

I mean, in the way that gender isn't considered binary anymore, surely a lesbian woman's attraction or not to a TW is also not binary (or gay man to TM). We need to move away from rules of what is or isn't as absolutes and be accepting of personal preference across a spectrum as the norm - one individual person's preference and perhaps not finding some groups attractive should just be accepted as personal preference and should not be seen as being anything-phobic. Sigh.

Yawn.

Sigh.

Waitwhat23 · 19/06/2021 22:07

Gender isn't binary but sex is. Lesbians are biological women who are attracted to other biological women I.e same sex attracted. This is a definition defined in law and is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act 2010. These are facts. A transwomen, who is attracted to women, is a biological man (who now identifies as a woman) who is attracted to women - they are by definition not a lesbian as they are not same sex attracted.

Massive solidarity to the women who are fighting for their same sex attraction to be seen as a valid premise. It is astonishing that this is being debated in 2021.

It's really sad that lesbians seem to have been consistently side lined by the organisations which claim to speak for them.

midgemagneto · 19/06/2021 22:09

Look

Yes people may be attracted to others for a range of reasons

But some people are only attracted to one sex

Accept that
Accept that where people are same sex attracted they suffer abuse
Accept that those people have a name that describe themselves
Don't try to change who they are,how they feel
Don't try to rubbish belittle and diminish then by taking away their name

Be more tolerant

Accept all people how they are

334bu · 19/06/2021 22:09

The homophobia on this thread is mind blowing.

speakout · 19/06/2021 22:09

HappyGoLuckyLuLu

Sigh indeed.

Having that happy spectrum sounds just fab.
Tell that to the 4 billion women in the world - many who are disempowered, disenfranchised, economically disabled, abused, work in servitude because of their biological sex.
But hey, it's a choice!
They could simply decide to be men then all would be fine. They need to get over it eh?

MrsNewms85 · 19/06/2021 22:13

@sunavendi I give up, I feel sick to my stomach that I've been called homophobic just because I don't agree with others on the feed. Even though I have said nothing derogatory about anyone who identifies as homosexual.

I've been accused of trying to score virtue points for defending men "posing" as women.

I only hope that the world is a kinder place in the future for everyone. Clearly got a long way to go.

Shedbuilder · 19/06/2021 22:13

See, this is what really pisses me off. We respond to all this in a rational, informed way that acknowledges the law, etymology, custom, history etc. And all we get back is word salad.

Come on, you trans allies. Up your game. Exercise your brains. Argue harder, argue better. Amass better evidence. Check what you've written for holes in your logic. Give us something to take away and think about.

HappyGoLuckyLuLu · 19/06/2021 22:15

There are no hard and fast rules to who can and can't be attracted to who. There is biology/science, which I agree is indisputable.

But the polarisation & inability to debate in a civilised manner is a huge problem - until these discussions can be had without overreaction we will never manage to move forwards

Trevsadick · 19/06/2021 22:15

I only hope that the world is a kinder place in the future for everyone

Even to lesbians? Yeah, me too.

Clarice99 · 19/06/2021 22:16

Check what you've written for holes in your logic. Give us something to take away and think about.

It's never going to happen. All women ever get is 'be kind' - to men.

midgemagneto · 19/06/2021 22:17

Kind place
Where
Everyone can use language to describe themselves with no ambiguity

So if someone says they are a lesbian that means same sex female attracted , males of any gender need not apply

That is kind and fair

Anything else is homophobia

Shedbuilder · 19/06/2021 22:17

[quote MrsNewms85]@sunavendi I give up, I feel sick to my stomach that I've been called homophobic just because I don't agree with others on the feed. Even though I have said nothing derogatory about anyone who identifies as homosexual.

I've been accused of trying to score virtue points for defending men "posing" as women.

I only hope that the world is a kinder place in the future for everyone. Clearly got a long way to go.

[/quote]
Don't give up. Give what we've said some thought. Think about what it's like to be a lesbian with creepy men presenting as women encouraging you to get used to dick. Think about what it's like to have your women's centre invaded by angry, aggressive men in lipstick saying they're women when every woman there knows they're not.

Stop centring men and start centring women. You've been called homophobic, by the way, because of your lack of respect for lesbians.