Caster Semanya Guardian Interview

[GrimDamnFanjo]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/apr/23/caster-semenya-theyre-killing-sport-people-want-extraordinary-performances

Interesting article but still maintains DSD is just a matter of testosterone differences.

Mixed sex sports? Is it being suggested that basically all olympic sports be cancelled from the ground up for everyone? Or just women?

Just women. It does not affect men. They are lucky like that

quiteathome

The top woman player in snooker is Reanne Evans, who is absolutely phenomenal, winning the women's World title twelve tiimes between 2005 and 2019. She first reached the semi final aged sixteen.
However, when Reanne has played the guys, it has been a very different story.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reanne_Evans

Women playing in men's golf.

www.topendsports.com/sport/golf/women-versus-men.htm

@NecessaryScene1

Her parents believed her to be a masculine girl. I doubt they had even heard of dsd. How exactly is one “raised as a girl” aside from her family and peers believing her to be female?

Hang on, how do you know what her parents believed? There's a reference above to Semenya's father using "he" throughout an interview.

We know Semenya was believed to be female at birth (so in the first few hours!), but they had years to find out Semenya was actually male, and there are a lot of ways that could come about. Including just changes during growth.

The evidence does suggest that Semenya was believed to be male at school at least in the years leading up to grade 11 (age 15), at which point that teacher found out Semenya was "actually a girl". (The scout had just been round?)

I don't know - for this stuff to be indicating maleness, from a GC perspective, would mean the parents would have known and encouraged masculine behaviours from quite early on, even in the pre-school years. I'm no sure how likely that is.

Now, from a less purist GC perspective you could probably be a little more flexible than that and say that maybe little boys identify with other boys for reasons beyond social pressures and penises.

"Especially when it comes to the possibility of scholarships being won by transwomen thanks to the changes in government policy."

Well, heaven forbid that a trans woman should win a scholarship.

@viques

Oh, and I realise that your question was about transwomen. When it comes to DSD identified female athletes and transwomen athletes the advantages both have over natal female non DSD female athletes are more or less identical.

In which case, where are the trans women Olympic qualifiers and medalists?

Well, heaven forbid that a trans woman should win a scholarship.

It would be a great result if the scholarship was for males or transwomen. Otherwise, they have caused harm to a female who was relying on a scholarship for their future.

Thanks for bringing it to our attention and the attention of those reading this thread.

Great point!

@Helleofabore

FrippEnos

I think you will find the poster is well versed in ignoring some quite relevant facts to be able to attempt deflection and distraction.

Indeed

@Helleofabore

Well, heaven forbid that a trans woman should win a scholarship.

It would be a great result if the scholarship was for males or transwomen. Otherwise, they have caused harm to a female who was relying on a scholarship for their future.

Thanks for bringing it to our attention and the attention of those reading this thread.

Great point!

Maybe Caitlyn Jenner, a former Olympian, could fund such scholarships with all the money earned from the campaign website asking people to shop.

Isn’t Jenner running for political office? Their money is probably tied up in that I guess.

In which case, where are the trans women Olympic qualifiers and medalists?

Oh. Have you gone through the entire list of competitors for the upcoming Olympics?

You know that this is the first Olympics after the changed policy allowing their competing. We have told you a few times now.

And that the committee has decided to review the policy again after this Olympics.

We can keep repeating it all for you again and again. Everytime we repeat the information, it not only bumps the thread, it means those reading the thread get more information. Sweet.

In elite sport the rule should be simple

Y chromosome = male event
X only = female event

The technology is there
The testing system is there

All that is needed is political will

@Helleofabore

In which case, where are the trans women Olympic qualifiers and medalists?

Oh. Have you gone through the entire list of competitors for the upcoming Olympics?

You know that this is the first Olympics after the changed policy allowing their competing. We have told you a few times now.

And that the committee has decided to review the policy again after this Olympics.

We can keep repeating it all for you again and again. Everytime we repeat the information, it not only bumps the thread, it means those reading the thread get more information. Sweet.

"Have you gone through the entire list of competitors for the upcoming Olympics?"

I haven't. Are there some trans women? That's great.

"You know that this is the first Olympics after the changed policy allowing their competing."

Trans women have been allowed to compete in the Olympics since 2004.

"And that the committee has decided to review the policy again after this Olympics."

No surprise there, but you still haven't explained where all the trans women qualifiers and medalists since 2004 are.

You mean like white women harming women of colour by winning scholarships?

It is a false equivalency to bring race into this. We have been through this on other threads.

Females competing against each other is fair.

If there needs to be more scholarships and specific sponsorship for women who are disadvantaged economically, that should certainly be addressed to ensure they receive the scholarships they need.

There is no place for a male to take the scholarships meant to progress female’s sporting opportunities.

Again. Thanks for bringing it up. I am sure some reader’s would not have thought that through before either.

@ListeningQuietly

In elite sport the rule should be simple

Y chromosome = male event
X only = female event

The technology is there
The testing system is there

All that is needed is political will

Wow, you have a lot to learn about DSDs.

@Helleofabore

You mean like white women harming women of colour by winning scholarships?

It is a false equivalency to bring race into this. We have been through this on other threads.

Females competing against each other is fair.

If there needs to be more scholarships and specific sponsorship for women who are disadvantaged economically, that should certainly be addressed to ensure they receive the scholarships they need.

There is no place for a male to take the scholarships meant to progress female’s sporting opportunities.

Again. Thanks for bringing it up. I am sure some reader’s would not have thought that through before either.

Don't worry - trans women are women.

Shizuku if a scholarship for women goes to a female, it's as it was intended. It doesn't matter what colour they are. It only matters what colour they are if the scholarship is specifically aimed at ethnic minorities. Don't use that racist argument comparing black women and TW. It's really a very, very poor and pathetic argument and deeply offensive.

Trans women have been allowed to compete in the Olympics since 2004.

No. I am sure you know this.

Transwomen have had limited ability to compete in the female sports until the most recent changes which allowed participation under different rules this Olympics.

No surprise there, but you still haven't explained where all the trans women qualifiers and medalists since 2004 are.

The changes were well publicized. Go look them up for yourself.

Just to repeat. The policy changed to coincide with this Olympics.

Unsurprisingly, the fact males have competed against women and who they are, has been kept low key:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3671937/Transgender-British-athletes-born-men-set-make-Olympic-history-competing-games-women.html

We know GB had at least 2 in 2016, who knows how many other countries had any. There are several countries around the world, Team GB included, who don’t have great reputations when it comes to “marginal gains” in sport. We know from this thread that keeping athlete’s male status under wraps is very important for these countries.

Don't worry - trans women are women.

Your lack of empathy for those females missing out on their opportunities and having increased risk introduced into their sports is noted.

By me and all readers of this thread.

Wow, you have a lot to learn about DSDs.

And this thread is about Caster Semenya who has a male difference of sex development. Keep up.

On the support thread for Sapphos, Shizuku is talking about DSDs in place of trans people, and here Shizuku is talking about trans people in place of people with DSDs. It’s just a game to them.

Wow, you have a lot to learn about DSDs.

No. They are not relevant to trans people.

And no, transwomen are not women

Don't worry - trans women are women.

And thanks again for the great opportunity to state why female single sex sport is important to keep single sex.

Males, regardless of how they identify, regardless of the gender they feel they are, have proven biological advantages over females. The recent Australian and Greek studies of school aged children found that this advantage is observed from even around 6 years old!! So up until puberty starts, there are still male advantages.

If a male then goes through an androgenized puberty, the advantages they have have been proven to not be reduced back to a level where it is fair or safe for those males to compete against women. Even after 3 years on reduced testosterone.

Here are three studies that show this. All peer reviewed and Harper et al is one where one of the prominent researchers is a transwoman.

This link below also includes a review of both the Greek and the Australian studies.

(Hilton and Lundberg)

link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-020-01389-3

This link is to Harper et al.

bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2021/02/28/bjsports-2020-103106

And this is the USAF study that supports the others findings.

bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2020/11/06/bjsports-2020-102329

Thanks again for bringing up transwomen in the thread about Caster Semenya with 5ARD. A male DSD. It really highlights these studies are actually applicable to any male who has had a male puberty.

Very good of you.