Could you stay married to a TRA?

[SapphosRock]

She believes TWAW, their feelings are more important than women’s rights and some lesbians have penises. Get over it. She was on here once upon a time but got permanently banned.
Everything else about the relationship is wonderful. Can we get past this? It seems like a stupid reason to get divorced. Our values used to be fairly similar but she’s got heavily involved in trans activism and I have gone the other way. Sorry for the pity party, just feel quite down about it today. Has anyone else been through similar?

@Dozer

This illustrates that this relationship issue goes beyond having different personal views, as you’re (both) actively involved in groups etc, bringing the difference to the fore and increasing the chances of events you or she will want to discuss at home, as has happened this week.

Exactly. It isn't about different views.

Its about abuse and enabling abuse.

Thats why i felt it was like trying to fit in with the cool kids even though you are seeing them bully the crap out of people. The belief that the behaviour is justified and the 'fault' of the victims is straight out of playground power politics. Except it now has very real life changing consequences.

The OP saw it and recognised it, but her wife continued to cheerlead for it.

It is significant if she's starting to recognise that actually its not whiter than white and is seeing it for what it is. Abuse.

For me this was where the scales fell for me. Seeing the aggressive hatred of women and appalling behaviour that under normal circumstances simply wouldn't be tolerated and seeing genuinely good people actively notice it but excuse it over and over again and never challenge it out of fear and because they've been so conditioned to 'be kind'. I've seen it first hand sadly.

I do think that once you start to see it, its difficult to unsee.

My worry is here that they will turn on your partner (blaming you in the process) if she doesn't ultimately and actively show support for their current target at some point. I fear ending the friendship will not be easy and could turn nasty. It would definitely free your wife from the spell of it but boy will she need support if thats the way it goes.

These are not nice people. Mafia is a good way to describe it as they operate by fear and intimidation, often using coercion and emotional blackmail.

I suspect there are people within the area who oppose this who have been moved to move away because of it, because its that extreme. That is often the goal. To force people they don't like and can't control out.

Look after yourself and watch your back.

My feelings are that as time goes on, women will wake up - the denial that TRAs make that they don’t want to erase the word woman or colonise our spaces is very quickly undone by the actual aggressive behaviour and actions of these people. So I’ve started to see staunch TWAW spewing friends start to get triggered by things that they are starting to see happening to the point where it just takes a couple of words of truth and the house of cards falls down. The ones most emphatically BE KIND TWAW I suspect will be the ones who will feel the betrayal most keenly - because ultimately the activists don’t care about women or girls, they have lied to them and used them to get support, they will quickly turn on them because no amount of support is enough in identity politics, no amount of begging or appeasing or kindness is enough to satisfy the need for total dominance and control. Your partner will wake up - as I’m seeing so many women waking up.

“Thats why i felt it was like trying to fit in with the cool kids even though you are seeing them bully the crap out of people. The belief that the behaviour is justified and the 'fault' of the victims is straight out of playground power politics. Except it now has very real life changing consequences.”

100%

Seriously?? Surely this isn't the biggest deal in the world. Do you share the exact same view on every minor thing? I think people have been brainwashed by MN and it's become way more important to you all than it really is, I bet half of you have no contact with and TW or TWA. Get off the internet! (As you always tell the trans kids to)

My heart goes out to you Sappo. I was in a very similar situation a few years ago, except me and my partner weren't married. Does your DW also beleive that sex work is work? My girlfriend did and that was the deal breaker for me.

Ironically, I'm now with a man who is much more supportive of women's rights.

It's not a simple case of different views thighs. It's being married to a Christian who's pretending to all their mates that you're a Christian too, and telling your kids you're going to hell.
Sapphos, hope your wife's friend is feeling stronger.

I couldn't be with someone who doesn't support human rights and trans rights. So I guess it's for the better that people stay separated.

I note someone above hasn’t rtft

Sapphos Im so sorry for your DW. I hope she and her friend are ok. Sadly there is no compromise from them - you’re either 100% for everything we say or you’re a bigot. It’s hard when you get turned on by ppl you consider your friends

Human rights include trans rights obviously because they’re humans

TW are not entitled to women’s rights because (can’t say because would probably get deleted)

@Biscuitsanddoombar

Human rights include trans rights obviously because they’re humans

TW are not entitled to women’s rights because (can’t say because would probably get deleted)

If you can't say it then I think it shows that it is wrong whatever view that may be. Transgender women are women. Additionally transgender men are men. It's that simple. If my significant other or even friends couldn't grasp that, then they wouldn't be in my life.

@thighsin

Seriously?? Surely this isn't the biggest deal in the world. Do you share the exact same view on every minor thing? I think people have been brainwashed by MN and it's become way more important to you all than it really is, I bet half of you have no contact with and TW or TWA. Get off the internet! (As you always tell the trans kids to)

What is TWA? Pygmy people or an airline? I’m trying not to fly now if that’s what you mean? I’m so glad you showed up to correct our wrong thinking! We will definitely do exactly as you say. Can I ask what punishments you will give us for not complying with your wishes? Could you also point out where the nearest re-education facility is please? Thanks!!!

@ASugarr

I couldn't be with someone who doesn't support human rights and trans rights. So I guess it's for the better that people stay separated.

The only human rights trans people don't have are women's sex based rights.

If one partner actively campaigns to uphold women's sex based rights in the community while the other partner actively campaigns to abolish them in the same community its inevitable tensions will arise in the marriage!

Incorrect. Trans women are women and are entitled to women's 'sex based' rights. If you disagree that's fine. But many people agree with this and will continue to fight for equality.

thighs pretty sure Sapphos has never posted anything on here telling trans kids to get off the internet!

Lets not deflect from the actual op and the fact this is about two actual people in a relationship, not some hypothetical or imaginary argument.

God its just inane crap.

Again, lets try not to derail the thread with bullshit

As Bunbury said earlier, let’s not derail a support thread with pigeon chess

I couldn’t be with anyone who is actively campaigning for my 3 DD to grow up into a world where everything is mixed sex because some males have hurt feelings.

Sapphos we haven’t always agreed in the past but I’m sorry you’re having to even think about this and your DW is going through the events in your last update .

If you can't say it then I think it shows that it is wrong whatever view that may be.

I am sure you have heard of Lysenko by now. We discuss it quite regularly here.

Anyone who thinks history never repeats is somewhat misinformed.

@SapphosRock

Thanks all. Yes I know about the Twitter monitors (waves). I've been indirectly threatened by them before for stepping out of line.

The lack of self awareness from some of these TRAs is astounding. Bullying allies, stalking women on Mumsnet, ruining careers, attacking LGBTQ organisations that support them. Not really sure what they're trying to achieve apart from alienating people.

abigailshrier.substack.com/p/a-harvard-psychiatrist-explains-our?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoyNDYwNDkxOCwicG9zdF9pZCI6MzU1MzcyODksIl8iOiJidXYvbiIsImlhdCI6MTYxOTI1MzM5NSwiZXhwIjoxNjE5MjU2OTk1LCJpc3MiOiJwdWItMjU4ODE3Iiwic3ViIjoicG9zdC1yZWFjdGlvbiJ9.5kn4T7hssSo6Ri6Jc70a-0FZ29JEQOYbdfue4dHJXng

I don’t know if this link will work as it’s to Substack but I found this article interesting op because it explores how the generation that grew up with smart phones are so used to binary debates that it’s easy to see how entrenched people can become in their positions.

Personally I think a lot of TRAs become addicted to the dopamine high of identifying with ‘victimhood’ and being angry and aggressive - and getting justification for that buzz by being chanted on with ‘likes’ and mantras. Bullying becomes mandated and lauded.

@Helleofabore

If you can't say it then I think it shows that it is wrong whatever view that may be.

I am sure you have heard of Lysenko by now. We discuss it quite regularly here.

Anyone who thinks history never repeats is somewhat misinformed.

I agree. History does repeat itself. Transphobia is the new homophobia. All the samples arguments, just tagretted at a different group.

Ps sorry if that came across as a derail, it was in response to op musing about what TRAs think they’re trying to achieve.
I hope your wife and her friend are alright SapphosRock, it sounds like it was a very distressing incident.

@ASugarr

This is a support thread for Sapphos, she and her wife are going through a difficult time, they also have children together. If you have no support to offer Sapphos perhaps start your own thread?

I’m sure they will...

[quote DaisiesandButtercups]@ASugarr

This is a support thread for Sapphos, she and her wife are going through a difficult time, they also have children together. If you have no support to offer Sapphos perhaps start your own thread?[/quote]
Then why post this on a platform that concourages debates and discussions?