Knew this would happen, had to turn down job

[Trixie78]

I'm furious, have been out of work for a while. Was offered a temporary contract writing and implementating policy for a public sector organisation. Just up my street and would really have helped us out. Turns out they're Stonewall champions and are full on TWAW and have all rights to anything they want. I asked to review some of their current policies and it's all cisgender crap and lists of stuff we must and mustn't do to make all Trans people safe. We'll I've obviously had to turn down the role and worse I told the recruiter why so will probably never get a job through them now. There are companies out there that haven't bought into all this crap aren't there?

I was told by a fifty year old friend, that males taking female hormones had no sporting advantage because once their testosterone was lowered they were literally the same as women.
Even adults have a tenuous grasp on biology. E.g. the number of men who think women wee from their vagina.

@Paletteofcolour

You show me someone who claims that a teenager actually believed a biological man can give birth and said please say pregnant people and il show you a liar.

We understand trans. You might not like it, but pretending you don't understand it is not on.

Kids aren't confused.

Noticed the "we" in that comment. Are you saying that you are a teenager, Driveway?

Driveways is clearly saying we as in we being people who you think don't understand trans. Where are you getting must be a teenager from?! "Talk about proving driveway right when it comes to pretending not to understand!

You show me someone who claims that a teenager actually believed a biological man can give birth and said please say pregnant people and il show you a liar.

I have come across young adults who have believed this would be possible upon transition. Astounding isn't it. Rather than calling people liars for it though (as that is very rude and dismissive) think about the messages young people are being given, and then think about how the most vulnerable of them end up in this situation. It's heartbreaking.

@Quaagars

It was the ..."we understand trans...kids aren't confused".
But maybe I've read it wrongly, I guess only Driveway can answer that.

But if Driveway isn't a teen, then how does understanding trans as an adult lead you to know kids aren't confused? When people who work with kids are telling you differently. I volunteer with teens, I love them, but many do lack life experience and take the gains that feminists have won in the past for granted.

I find it interesting that we’re meant to accept men saying they feel like a woman merely on their say so #nodebate #acceptancewithoutexception with no evidence

But say you work with teenagers who genuinely believe that your sex literally changes and boys can give birth and suddenly evidence becomes very important....

It does become so important. As lives can be absolutely ruined because of it. Surely this is important to the trans community; that teens are given clear and understandable facts to support them to make a reasoned and balanced choice, on whichever path they decide to walk.

Driveway doesn't believe lots of things - on another thread didn't they not believe that a teenager (living today) didn't know what a cervix was?

Crikey, without a doubt there will be plenty of teenagers and adults who don't know what a cervix is.

Which is exactly why the word 'woman' is so important in health communications.

@MolyHolyGuacamole

I told the recruiter why so will probably never get a job through them now.

Fingers crossed.

Oh don't worry about me you old soppy, there's plenty of recruiters it's no loss 🤣🤣🤣

@Erkrie

You show me someone who claims that a teenager actually believed a biological man can give birth and said please say pregnant people and il show you a liar.

I have come across young adults who have believed this would be possible upon transition. Astounding isn't it. Rather than calling people liars for it though (as that is very rude and dismissive) think about the messages young people are being given, and then think about how the most vulnerable of them end up in this situation. It's heartbreaking.

Tbh I'm not really surprised teenagers genuinely believe you can change sex, that's what they're being taught after all. As a mother to two boys it's all a bit terrifying. It's an ideology that will probably cause me issues professionally over the next few years. Even worse, my kids could be caught up in it. It astonishes me how many of my peers are yet to understand the issues.

@myrtleWilson

Driveway doesn't believe lots of things - on another thread didn't they not believe that a teenager (living today) didn't know what a cervix was?

Driveway's Teenagers: until observed, they could be either completely clued up on or totally ignorant of human biology...

“”You show me someone who claims that a teenager actually believed a biological man can give birth and said please say pregnant people and il show you a liar.””

Years ago when the red tops would post such stuff like ‘man gives birth’ I sort of “believed” it as I didn’t give much thought to what that actually meant in reality. As I started taking an interest I obviously realised what that headline actually meant and that scientists had not been successful in womb transplants. So it wouldn’t surprise me if young people believed the same as they just take it as fact.

Things I’ve known fairly intelligent teenagers believe:

-A mini angel figure will keep you safe

-Tigers are female lions

-Jurassic Park had real dinosaurs

... so I don’t doubt that some will have misunderstood what they’re told about sex, legal sex changes, and pregnancy.

How many teenage boys know where their prostate is and what it does ?

Hi folks,

As well guessed by PP, I got strikes and took some time out to reflect.

This is a topic that massively presses buttons in for reasons I'm not entirely sure of, if I'm honest.

I was aggressive, inflammatory and unecessarily combative and I apologise to every poster that was aimed at.

It's not the first time on this type of topic and I reckon I have some real soul searching to do in regards to that.

I'm not a bad person, I'm a human behind a keyboard but I fully appreciate this thread has shone a spotlight on something I definitely need to look into!

Sending peace, sunshine and good vibes to all.

Driveway x

Driveway

Have a great day Driveway, hope you get some sun to enjoy!

Fair dos, Driveway .

Fair enough Driveway. Strange times at the moment.

Thanks guys. 🥺

Driveway, I think many of us feel the urge to be instinctively kind to those - especially the young - who struggle with their gender. I do, anyway. Most of the trans people I know are very young and fairly vulnerable. (Only one transitioned as an adult, and my sympathies there lie much more with his wife and teenage children.)

But there’s no easy way to be ‘kind’ to everyone involved at once, is there? One person’s ‘reality’ clashes with another’s here.

It’s hardly kind to mock or exclude or criminalize or sack any woman or girl for recognizing a male person as male, yet that seems to be where we are heading.

@Butwasitherdriveway

Hi folks,

As well guessed by PP, I got strikes and took some time out to reflect.

This is a topic that massively presses buttons in for reasons I'm not entirely sure of, if I'm honest.

I was aggressive, inflammatory and unecessarily combative and I apologise to every poster that was aimed at.

It's not the first time on this type of topic and I reckon I have some real soul searching to do in regards to that.

I'm not a bad person, I'm a human behind a keyboard but I fully appreciate this thread has shone a spotlight on something I definitely need to look into!

Sending peace, sunshine and good vibes to all.

Driveway x

That is very good for you to say

🍷

Driveway Fair play for that statement.

I certainly wouldn't want to be discriminatory to any minority group and I don't think we are. It's a really difficult balance to strike. I'm ancient enough to remember homosexuality being against the law where I live and I was always horrified by how bigoted some people were (and still are), I've always fought for gay rights...black rights... environmental issues. It feels wrong to be arguing against TRAs, I'm not that person, because I want trans people to be safe, protected and have rights. But at the same time it's such a difficult issue, because I want women's rights to be preserved too, there shouldn't be a conflict, but there is.

Thank you for apologising Driveway. Reading between your lines it seems you have been encouraged by mumsnet mods to consider an apology rather than a ban?

Thanks to mumsnet mods for this, I think encouraging people to adjust to civility is a real positive of this site.

If I am right and you have chosen to apologise to keep your ability to post here then I hope you can find some benefit from engaging in these conversations. It's not everyone's idea of feminism here, but it is women talking honestly and openly.

I said some daft and silly things in my youth, and was pulled up on them. I am grateful to the older people that pulled me up and recognise that I needed to both say them and be told why they were daft and inconsiderate.

I hope you are staying here to read and listen. It's good to understand yourself and to understand other people and their motivations with an open mind, it's a skill we can all only really get by engaging with some willingness to reflect. Reflection is an important skill in the learning cycle in adult life, and it does take practice.

Don't beat yourself up too much.