Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Knew this would happen, had to turn down job

454 replies

Trixie78 · 22/04/2021 13:23

I'm furious, have been out of work for a while. Was offered a temporary contract writing and implementating policy for a public sector organisation. Just up my street and would really have helped us out. Turns out they're Stonewall champions and are full on TWAW and have all rights to anything they want. I asked to review some of their current policies and it's all cisgender crap and lists of stuff we must and mustn't do to make all Trans people safe. We'll I've obviously had to turn down the role and worse I told the recruiter why so will probably never get a job through them now. There are companies out there that haven't bought into all this crap aren't there?

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/04/2021 22:08

No I don't, Driveway.

Butwasitherdriveway · 22/04/2021 22:08

@itsalifetimesworkfella

How annoying Op but better to leave them to it.

We had training on these sort of policies at work. We all sat quiet as the trainer launched through it all but once they left we discussed it and not ONE person bought any of it.

Just a tick box exercise.

Best summed up by the comment 'what a load of shite'

Or were scared to say they got it.
VanGoghsDog · 22/04/2021 22:08

Unlike the posters who are making up that OP is right despite having zero evidence for this?

Right about what? About big taking a job because of goes against her own belief system? Of course she is right to do that.

I could not work for a tobacco company, or an arms dealer, or Dyson. We all get that choice.

PotholeHellhole · 22/04/2021 22:08

The OP clearly says she elected not to take a job. Not that she left a job.

I think these distinctions are important.

Butwasitherdriveway · 22/04/2021 22:09

@Ereshkigalangcleg

No I don't, Driveway.
But you've said at length you think being trans is a crock of shit.
Butwasitherdriveway · 22/04/2021 22:09

@VanGoghsDog

Unlike the posters who are making up that OP is right despite having zero evidence for this?

Right about what? About big taking a job because of goes against her own belief system? Of course she is right to do that.

I could not work for a tobacco company, or an arms dealer, or Dyson. We all get that choice.

Right .

So she can't work for a company connectes with Stonewall based on....

countrypunk · 22/04/2021 22:10

@Butwasitherdriveway

It's quite difficult to argue with you because nothing you say makes sense. And you're very defensive. But yes, there is a generally accepted definition of feminism.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/04/2021 22:10

We all sat quiet as the trainer launched through it all but once they left we discussed it and not ONE person bought any of it.

Most people don't. It's generally a case of top down policy by organisations (and their internal lobby groups) who want to appease Stonewall to be seen as "inclusive". If it excludes other people they aren't going to act unless there are legal ramifications.

VanGoghsDog · 22/04/2021 22:11

Nobody has talked about them. I wonder why.

Because it is up to the OP how much detail she gives and she is entitled to as much anonymity as she wants.

Butwasitherdriveway · 22/04/2021 22:11

[quote countrypunk]@Butwasitherdriveway

It's quite difficult to argue with you because nothing you say makes sense. And you're very defensive. But yes, there is a generally accepted definition of feminism. [/quote]
What have I said that doesn't make sense?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/04/2021 22:11

But you've said at length you think being trans is a crock of shit.

Have I? I don't think I used that aggressive tone, so not sure why you are?

youvegottenminuteslynn · 22/04/2021 22:12

Are you being deliberately obtuse @Butwasitherdriveway?

Based on the fact she fundamentally disagrees with Stonewall's stance on an issue (the rights of women and girls) she feels incredibly strongly about. What's not to understand about that reasoning?!

You presumably wouldn't want to work for a company that denounced stonewall and said they disagreed with their stance on trans issues? As would be your right, which wouldn't be confusing even to people who disagreed with your opinion on the topic.

Butwasitherdriveway · 22/04/2021 22:13

@youvegottenminuteslynn

Are you being deliberately obtuse *@Butwasitherdriveway*?

Based on the fact she fundamentally disagrees with Stonewall's stance on an issue (the rights of women and girls) she feels incredibly strongly about. What's not to understand about that reasoning?!

You presumably wouldn't want to work for a company that denounced stonewall and said they disagreed with their stance on trans issues? As would be your right, which wouldn't be confusing even to people who disagreed with your opinion on the topic.

No.

Ice just asked what the specific policies are. I

youvegottenminuteslynn · 22/04/2021 22:13

@youvegottenminuteslynn

Are you being deliberately obtuse *@Butwasitherdriveway*?

Based on the fact she fundamentally disagrees with Stonewall's stance on an issue (the rights of women and girls) she feels incredibly strongly about. What's not to understand about that reasoning?!

You presumably wouldn't want to work for a company that denounced stonewall and said they disagreed with their stance on trans issues? As would be your right, which wouldn't be confusing even to people who disagreed with your opinion on the topic.

This was in answer to you saying the following by the way:

So she can't work for a company connectes with Stonewall based on....

VanGoghsDog · 22/04/2021 22:13

So she can't work for a company connectes with Stonewall based on....

IT'S UP TO HER! You don't get to tell people they can only make decisions about the jobs they take if you approve those decisions.

If she chooses to stay away from Stonewalled companies it's up to her. She can use whatever criteria she likes and she doesn't answer to you.

Butwasitherdriveway · 22/04/2021 22:13

@Ereshkigalangcleg

But you've said at length you think being trans is a crock of shit.

Have I? I don't think I used that aggressive tone, so not sure why you are?

Well, you've compared it to a mythical belief. Is that better ?
PotholeHellhole · 22/04/2021 22:14

The brain thing all seems like a decades long No True Scotsman Fallacy.

For the uninitiated, the fallacy goes like this:

Person 1: no Scotsman puts salt on his porridge.
Person 2: Yerwot? My cousin Dan has salted his porridge every day for thirty years.
Person 1: Your cousin is it? Well, notrueScotsman puts salt on his porridge!

Possibly followed by: he should bugger back off to England with you!

Instead of questioning the original assumption in response to new information, fault is just found with later information to justify why it doesn't actually count.

At some point after some study or other, we developed some observations on how to distinguish a male brain and a female brain.

Male brains had this feature. Female brains had that feature. This was used to justify (in learned tones) why women were under-represented in well paid professions in various popsci magazines. Our brains, see?Hmm

Then, someone points out that some male humans may have a neurological feature after all and it's:

"No true male brain has that feature. Bugger off, you're a woman!"

All seems rather daft. We all trace our origins back to the fusion of one egg cell and one sperm cell. 99.982% of human babies born were conceived with an XX or XY karyotype, by the way. And there has been no significant correlation between people with intersex conditions and people who identify as transgender, so let's not discuss that. People with variations of sexual development have said to keep them out of it!

So there you are, with a single cell that resulted from the fusion of the X egg and a Y sperm, rapidly undergoing cell division. Every cell is an undifferentiated, i.e. unspecialised cell, but each is XY in the DNA in the cell nucleus. Then as the weeks progress, cell differentiation starts happening, which means specialised cells, like bone, skin, muscle, pancreas andneuralcells start forming. Every single one carrying the same DNA instructions as that first cell, but following different sections of it.

Of course the male fetus has a male brain! Where would a female brain have come from? No-one would talk of a male baby having female kidneys if his kidneys were smaller than usual for a boy, would they?

Butwasitherdriveway · 22/04/2021 22:14

@VanGoghsDog

So she can't work for a company connectes with Stonewall based on....

IT'S UP TO HER! You don't get to tell people they can only make decisions about the jobs they take if you approve those decisions.

If she chooses to stay away from Stonewalled companies it's up to her. She can use whatever criteria she likes and she doesn't answer to you.

Right.

However.

How can we know whether she was right if we don't know the policies she is objecting to?

VanGoghsDog · 22/04/2021 22:15

Ice just asked what the specific policies are.

Yes, you have asked ad fucking nauseum. The op does not have to answer you. Stop harassing her.

Butwasitherdriveway · 22/04/2021 22:15

If there was a company that was run by feminists and I said I've turned down this job because irs run by feminists, people would ask me to explain my thinking.

But it's not OK to do it the other way round?

Butwasitherdriveway · 22/04/2021 22:16

@VanGoghsDog

Ice just asked what the specific policies are.

Yes, you have asked ad fucking nauseum. The op does not have to answer you. Stop harassing her.

I'm not harassing her. I haven't responded directly to her for pages. It's me thats taking the pounding. Thanks though.
LostToucan · 22/04/2021 22:17

Ice just asked what the specific policies are. I

OP clearly stated the policy that she disagreed with.

This really isn’t difficult.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 22/04/2021 22:17

Ah ok I get it now @Butwasitherdriveway. You aren't actually interested in explaining what you mean or understanding what others mean, just asking the same thing over and over again because you aren't getting an answer you like.

Then claiming it's because you haven't had a relevant one, which is an entirely different matter.

I'm out, people with more patience with me will end up banging their head against a brick wall and your style of approaching these topics is what makes life harder, not easier, for my trans friends who actually understand this is a nuanced debate without goodies and baddies. That women and girls have valid concerns and funnily enough, my trans friends don't want to trample over them because they are decent and empathetic people.

You don't speak for them.

VanGoghsDog · 22/04/2021 22:17

How can we know whether she was right if we don't know the policies she is objecting to?

Ffs. There is no RIGHT, it's her choice, it's personal. And she doesn't answer to you.

If you don't want to agree with her stance, it's fine. If you feel you can't give any support without knowing more, it's fine.

But you cannot demand to know more in order that you may pass your judgment.

You're actually just bullying now.

Scepticaltank · 22/04/2021 22:17

But I think people can believe their brain is different from their body and they are in the wrong body.

Is that ok with you?

So you completely misread my post, posted several times on the back of your misreading about me being an embarrassment, laughed at my son's understanding of his mother, said how my son must be too embarrassed to be honest with me and how he was right all along.

And now I have to reassure you?

The conversation was the strange things young people start to repeat because of how confusing sex denialism explanations are. My DS realised he had absorbed a male and female brain theory and visible rejected the idea whilst he was saying it.

It was funny. He laughs about it.

And the cat.

I will not be giving you any reassurance that you are OK.