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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

LGB Alliance is now a registered charity

999 replies

OhHolyJesus · 20/04/2021 12:38

It took over a year...

"LGBA applied to register as a charity in March 2020. Its purposes are to promote equality and diversity and human rights.
The test of charity status is set out in law. A charity is an organisation with exclusively charitable purposes for the public benefit, that is subject to the jurisdiction of the High Court of England and Wales. If it meets these legal tests, it will be entered on the charity register.
It is not the Commission’s role to make value judgements about the aims or ideas put forward by any organisation. Instead, its role is to decide whether an organisation’s purposes fall within the legal definition of charity.
The Commission received a number of objections to the registration of LGBA as a charity. It carefully considered these as part of making its decision. In handling this application, the Commission has had regard to the Public Sector Equality Duty.
Registered charities fall under the Commission’s regulation, and their trustees must continuously meet the legal duties and responsibilities set down under charity law. A charity can promote the rights of one or more specific groups, but may not do so whilst demeaning or denigrating the rights of others, including on social media – and the Commission will consider taking regulatory action where that occurs.
The full decision, explaining the grounds for registering the organisation and the objections that were considered, can be found on GOV.UKK_"

www.gov.uk/government/news/charity-commission-confirms-registration-of-lgb-alliance

OP posts:
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ASugarr · 21/04/2021 16:34

@CardinalLolzy

Sex and gender don't matter to me as much.

ASug - genuine question. Because of this, do you see people who do have a sexual preference - for whom sex does matter - as wrong or immoral or bad in some way? Or do you genuinely believe they are completely allowed to have a specific sex (not gender) as a criterion for who they consider for dating?

No. Not at all. I just do hope they polite and respectful to those who think differently. Just like how some people have a genital preference. Totally cool! But there's no need to be rude to others because theirs is different or they think differently.
CuriousaboutSamphire · 21/04/2021 16:35

Again. Not everyone cares about the biology of who they are attracted to. I know a man and woman who are together and are straight. Yet one of them is transgender. Doesn't mean that they aren't straight/heterosexual. Erm, I think it does. And matters to the other person involed if they don't share the same unusual defintion of age old words.

I couldn't care less who fucks who, as long as all are of an age and fully consenting. But I strongly object to anyone who tries to redefine sexuality because it allows them to be something/someone they clearly are not!

And yes, I too know a couple who are 'straight', yet he is a transman. He's one of my oldest friends. But neither he or his wife think his is male. He is a transman and she was heterosexual and now doesn't define her sexuality, she just loves him! Neither of them would try to redefine gay, straight, trans, pan, bi to fit their specific situation.

It might surprise you to find out I know a transwoman with pretty much the same opinon too! They are who they are, love who they love. But are FULLY aware that they are at odds with social norms. They are accepted for who they are, work to reduce the real discrimination they face and do not try to mangle social constructs to make them something they are not.

Helleofabore · 21/04/2021 16:36

If I remember correctly, the DoE was very clear that students were taught facts and not political based ideology.

Please explain in what way teaching someone under the age of 18, that lesbian or gay is anything OTHER than as per the UK government definition under the EA2010?

ASugarr · 21/04/2021 16:36

@CardinalLolzy

Okay well we shall agree to disagree on that one.

Cool, I prefer to interpret 'disagree' as 'agree', so I'm glad to see ASug has come around to our way of thinking!

I mean I think a lot of people were trying to take what I was saying out of context. Because my mind hasn't changed this entire time. Yes I've apologized if my words haven't quite made sense, but I still have the same views and morals as I did before.
TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 21/04/2021 16:36

I'm cool with people being same sex attracted. But I'm not okay with people telling others they aren't the sexuality they are because they don't define their attraction to someone by their sex. That's all.

No, you’re not cool with it at all. There is only one charity that caters for lesbians and gay men who are exclusively same sex attracted, and you want that org to have its charitable status revoked. You are actively pursing that aim. You actively want exclusively same sex attracted people to be left without representation and support, as they were before the creation of the LGBA.

It’s pure homophobia.

PotholeHellhole · 21/04/2021 16:37

I think "genital preference" is a disrespectful and dismissive way to refer to other people's sexuality. It does not sound like a description made in good faith.

I much prefer "sexual orientation".

R0wantrees · 21/04/2021 16:41

No, you’re not cool with it at all. There is only one charity that caters for lesbians and gay men who are exclusively same sex attracted, and you want that org to have its charitable status revoked. You are actively pursing that aim. You actively want exclusively same sex attracted people to be left without representation and support, as they were before the creation of the LGBA.

It’s pure homophobia.

Furthermore, the homophobia demonstrated appears specifically targetted at lesbians.

Helleofabore · 21/04/2021 16:41

Righto. Page 39.

Time for some of that evidence to be posted that supports the assertions that have been made. Since they are supposedly on the LGB Alliance's website, they are obviously easy to cut and paste.

Otherwise, I think we can assume that the assertions are again unfounded and are probably just a repetition of the rhetoric from twitter self-identified 'influencers'. Meaning people who are very sparing of the truth, but are paid by the follower and the interaction so rely on being 'edgy' and telling people what they want to hear.

CardinalLolzy · 21/04/2021 16:42

@TalkingtoLangClegintheDark

I'm cool with people being same sex attracted. But I'm not okay with people telling others they aren't the sexuality they are because they don't define their attraction to someone by their sex. That's all.

No, you’re not cool with it at all. There is only one charity that caters for lesbians and gay men who are exclusively same sex attracted, and you want that org to have its charitable status revoked. You are actively pursing that aim. You actively want exclusively same sex attracted people to be left without representation and support, as they were before the creation of the LGBA.

It’s pure homophobia.

Yes, I can't quite reconcile ASug's actions with their "totally cool" words, and as they claim words can basically mean whatever you choose them to mean, it's probably more instructive to look at what ASug's actions are - actively trying to prevent a charity from supporting same-sex attracted people.
CuriousaboutSamphire · 21/04/2021 16:42

Genital preference? What the hell is that?

CardinalLolzy · 21/04/2021 16:44

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

Copy and pasted from a thread I started at the same time (which I will ask to be deleted).

Apparently they applied March last year, but were delayed due to complaints. I found the reasoning behind allowing their registration interesting.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/lgb-alliance/lgb-alliance-full-decision

One of the complaints said that:

23.The Commission received objections to registration of LGB Alliance, which are in summary, on the basis that the organisation’s purposes:

i. unlawfully discriminate against transgender people under the Equality Act 2010 (the Equality Act);

The commission found that:

26.Section 193 of the Equality Act provides an exemption from the prohibitions in that Act where benefits are restricted by reference to persons sharing a protected characteristic in pursuance of a charitable instrument, and where this is either a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim or is for the purpose of preventing or compensating for a disadvantage linked to the protected characteristic.

28.Promoting equality and human rights for lesbian, gay and bisexual people is not unlawful or contrary to public policy. A purpose of promoting the equality and human rights of lesbian, gay and bisexual people is not inherently discriminatory and does not necessarily have the effect of inhibiting the rights of transgender people.

30.In support of its application for registration LGB Alliance stated that “In educating the public about human rights and equality issues relating to the LGB community, LGB Alliance’s position will be there are only two sexes and gender is a social construct, and that this perspective should form part of the discussion about these issues.”

31.Similar views were considered in the decision of the Employment Tribunal in Forstater v CGD Europe & others [footnote 12] in which the Tribunal held (subject to an appeal) that the absolutist nature of a belief which denied the right of a person with a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) to be the sex to which they had transitioned was incompatible with human dignity and the fundamental rights of others. It therefore did not qualify as a belief protected by section 10 of the Equality Act.[snip]

32.The fact that a particular belief does not attract such protection does not necessarily compel the finding that the promotion of rights, or the education of the public, in accordance with such a belief cannot be charitable. The question is whether the manifestation of that belief renders the purposes non-charitable.

34.If the promotion of the rights of one group is to be pursued in a way which invariably involves the denigration of the rights of others, that purpose may not be for public benefit. However, promoting the equality and human rights of lesbian, gay and bisexual people may be pursued without denigrating the rights of transgender people.

I found this useful, earlier.
Erkrie · 21/04/2021 16:44

Yet you did with trans woman earlier. Ironic really

Did I? I can't find it. What did I say? ☺️

ListeningQuietly · 21/04/2021 16:44

LGBA as a charity are here to stay.

Those who regard them as a threat should look in the mirror

yourhairiswinterfire · 21/04/2021 16:47

ASugarr I'm pleased that you're cool with others being exclusively same-sex attracted.

Can I ask, did you see the TikTok videos of a young woman, 18 or 19 years old, crying because of the abuse she'd received for stating she was same sex attracted, that she didn't want a partner with a penis? Would you agree that the people that abused her for her sexual orientation are homophobic?

Are you aware that if lesbians state publicly (on platforms specifically for lesbians) that they're same sex attracted and are only interested in a biological woman as a partner, they are banned from those platforms? Being as you're ok with people being exclusively same sex attracted, would you agree that lesbians being banned from platforms for declaring their sexual orientation is homophobic?

I hope this doesn't sound like I'm having a pop at you, I'm just curious about your thoughts. Do you think same sex attracted lesbians deserve their own spaces and platforms separate from same gender attracted lesbians?

ASugarr · 21/04/2021 16:48

@Erkrie

People can identify however they want. They may struggle when people go with the recognised definitions from the dictionary though. Which the majority of people do. Rather than just making things up because they want to.

Words matter. Meanings matter. Facts matter. I'm going with the dictionary.

Here @Erkrie. You said you go with dictionary definitions. The definition of a trans woman is "a transgender person who has transitioned from male to female". So they must be female to you. Meaning they must be women.
R0wantrees · 21/04/2021 16:49

Righto. Page 39.

Time for some of that evidence to be posted that supports the assertions that have been made. Since they are supposedly on the LGB Alliance's website, they are obviously easy to cut and paste.

We should have a second linked thread given the serious false accusations and unsubstantiated smears made against the charity LGB Alliance but also, more importantly in order that those who are supportive of their work have space to comment.

JustcameoutGC · 21/04/2021 16:51

Woo hoo - just set up my direct debit.
I have had so many conversations with lesbian friends about how abandoned by Stonewall they feel.
Some of them have even stated they never felt completely at home in Stonewall, as lesbian voices were never as strong as they should have been. They see the focusing on trans issues, and in particular on transwomen as the final insult. Looking at LGBA donations page I think they have a new home.

Helleofabore · 21/04/2021 16:52

@R0wantrees

Righto. Page 39.

Time for some of that evidence to be posted that supports the assertions that have been made. Since they are supposedly on the LGB Alliance's website, they are obviously easy to cut and paste.

We should have a second linked thread given the serious false accusations and unsubstantiated smears made against the charity LGB Alliance but also, more importantly in order that those who are supportive of their work have space to comment.

Good point..

That would allow extra time to gather and disseminate that evidence so that we can see that it is not a load of bollocks after all.

ASugarr · 21/04/2021 16:53

@yourhairiswinterfire

ASugarr I'm pleased that you're cool with others being exclusively same-sex attracted.

Can I ask, did you see the TikTok videos of a young woman, 18 or 19 years old, crying because of the abuse she'd received for stating she was same sex attracted, that she didn't want a partner with a penis? Would you agree that the people that abused her for her sexual orientation are homophobic?

Are you aware that if lesbians state publicly (on platforms specifically for lesbians) that they're same sex attracted and are only interested in a biological woman as a partner, they are banned from those platforms? Being as you're ok with people being exclusively same sex attracted, would you agree that lesbians being banned from platforms for declaring their sexual orientation is homophobic?

I hope this doesn't sound like I'm having a pop at you, I'm just curious about your thoughts. Do you think same sex attracted lesbians deserve their own spaces and platforms separate from same gender attracted lesbians?

I haven't seen that actually. If someone could link it that would be great. I don't like anyone judging others sexuality. Sexuality isn't a choice, and certainly not something others should just people on. Because there's no right or wrong way to be attracted to others. I am sorry if that is what that girl experienced.
CardinalLolzy · 21/04/2021 16:53

Here @Erkrie. You said you go with dictionary definitions. The definition of a trans woman is "a transgender person who has transitioned from male to female". So they must be female to you. Meaning they must be women.

So you think a woman who is transgender can't be any other gender than female?

CardinalLolzy · 21/04/2021 16:54

Because there's no right or wrong way to be attracted to others.

Can you not think of any sexual attraction that is wrong? That's worrying.

ASugarr · 21/04/2021 16:55

@CardinalLolzy

Because there's no right or wrong way to be attracted to others.

Can you not think of any sexual attraction that is wrong? That's worrying.

Other adult humans. That doesnt mean anyone else.
Helleofabore · 21/04/2021 16:57

Because there's no right or wrong way to be attracted to others.

Oh dear. Did you really mean to say this? On mumsnet?

This is how school resources get cancelled. Words have meaning, regardless of if you really want them to or not.

CardinalLolzy · 21/04/2021 16:57

Other adult humans. That doesnt mean anyone else.

Sorry - I can't parse this post. What do you mean?

ErrolTheDragon · 21/04/2021 16:57

That's what it boils down to. Do you think same sex attracted lesbians deserve their own spaces and platforms separate from same gender attracted lesbians?

... and ditto gay men.
Stonewall and other originally 'sex attracted LGB ' organisations have largely ceased to be such places. So who on earth could possibly begrudge people who felt the need setting up a new one? (Other than homophobes, of course).

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