What do you say to women who accept TWAW?

[Shizuku]

The GC claim is that accepting TWAW has detrimental effects on the lives of women who aren't trans.

So, how do you explain to the millions of women who accept TWAW that their lives have been negatively affected by that acceptance, given that as far as they can see, nothing bad happened and their lives just carried on as normal?

So, how do you explain to the millions of women who accept TWAW.

I would like a source for this, please.

A source would be helpful. As I very much doubt there are millions of women who believe this.

I tell them they can't consent on my behalf to be confronted with penises in women's changing rooms anymore than I can consent on their behalf to see penises on a train carriage.

Exposing your penis on a train carriage or any other public place is illegal, in case you weren't aware @Shizuku. People like you think it's acceptable in women's changing rooms though.

There may well be many women who believe 'TWAW' (or say they do) whose lives haven't thereby been harmed. But, no woman is an island. Their acceptance may be passively allowing harm to other women and girls to happen. If you and your DDs aren't into sports, for instance, sure you won't be harmed by males on women's teams.

The may well - up to a point.

As a man I would say to a man who believes TWAW (fullstop, end of discussion unless you want to be insulted...) that they have no right to compromise the rights of women - if women want to give up their rights that's their business. As a man one's only right is to stand shoulder to shoulder with women.

To a woman...

(1) When black people fought for equality, when women fought for the vote, they were saying "we want what everyone else has". What a trans woman wants is a different and harder to deliver request - a request to be removed from one box and placed into another box. That is a much harder request for society to deliver, especially given that they are entering the box of a relatively underprivileged group. Trans rights are inherently more complex and harder to deliver than gay rights or black rights and the trans community should recognize that publicly.

(2) Sex is a biological fact. Do you think all issues are 100% relevant to gender and 0% relevant to sex, or do you think that some issues are specific to the female sex?

(3) Do you think that the relatively lack of trans women identifying as butch / masculine women suggests that trans women tend to be attracted to outdated stereotypes and not the reality of womanhood?

(4) Do you see an irony that one of the biggest issues seems to be trans women wishing to access female only changing rooms and toilets in order to be safe from men, when feeling unsafe due to men is an inherent aspect of being a woman, and can be the end result of male bodies in female spaces?

(5) Do you realize how personal most trans women's opinion of womanhood is, and how little it has to do with any sort of shared feelings of sisterhood with other women?

(6) Why do you think that trans women are a problem for women in a way that trans men aren't a problem for men? Do you think this raises issues that need consideration?

(7) Do you think that women have a right to spaces (online or in real life, and especially within academia) with which to discuss the above issues without being accused of bigotry or being physically threatened by men and other people with male bodies? Do you agree that there is a problem, a big problem, if the trans-orthodoxy sees even raising any of these things as the height of bigotry, basically equivalent to believing that apartheid south africa was morally perfect.

I came onto the thread, saw who the OP was and went on 'filter by OP' just to check - before I invested any time - that it was the plop and run I expected it to be...

2 posts by OP out of 120+.

I'm out.

@Erkrie

A source would be helpful. As I very much doubt there are millions of women who believe this.

I don't know, I know ... counts on fingers ... well, at least three women who believe this. Or say they do.

Knew it would be a drop and run
OP isn't interested
At all

Not read the whole thread.

Not a topic I raise irl.

When others have raised it, I've found all but one thinks it's a load of rubbish. Men and women.

I find the assertion that millions of women in the UK only care about themselves and people they're close to pretty nasty tbh. Sounds like you don't like women much if that's what you think of them as a group.

I'd say 'don't be such a bloody idiot.' What else can you say? It's not like they believe it anyway, it's either 'being kind' or displaying a high status luxury belief in the knowledge anyone 'lesser' saying it would be a laughing stock.

Yeah seahorses exactly

Vacant fools

I don't know, I know ... counts on fingers ... well, at least three women who believe this. Or say they do.

And I feel very grateful that I don't know them.

I'd probably do the same thing I do when that flat-earther customer at work tries to engage with me. Remain polite, remember that it's like a religious belief so logic and reason are futile, and try to get away as soon as possible.

Honestly if they were so unable to consider that we actually need to create a society that meets everyone's needs and not just their own, I would not want to talk to them at all. The question is not whether their lives have been affected it's whether any woman's life have. If they can't understand that they are really hard of thinking.

I know one person who seems to actually believe it. I say I disagree with her.

Most people who say it, when you dig a bit more they don't actually believe it. They feel sorry for TW they know personally and think it's the kind thing to pretend.

@Shizuku

The GC claim is that accepting TWAW has detrimental effects on the lives of women who aren't trans.

So, how do you explain to the millions of women who accept TWAW that their lives have been negatively affected by that acceptance, given that as far as they can see, nothing bad happened and their lives just carried on as normal?

There are lots of bad things that happen to people that other people don’t experience and don’t have to think about. Trans women are Trans women. I think of someone believes Trans women are biological women they are deluded. So what would I say to that woman? Nothing. I just wouldn’t trust them to make important decisions about the safety of my daughter.

And it’s interesting because I’m starting to see women waking up to this - especially every single mother I speak to - and the pushback once all the bullshit is out in the open will be swift - this ideological movement is desperately holding on with more and more threats. The lawsuits are coming.

The last woman I know who was actually going along with it, person actually, is a family member. She told me recently that she realised that she was going around saying it's all fine, except the sport thing, they're taking the piss there and except the ones that have girl mode days and except the one that took the woman's financial services award and except those ones in female prisons and she realised that actually, the exceptions were outweighing the rules and she wasn't actually ok with it. She has a close trans friend that's she's known since school days so that made it harder for her to admit I think.

@Shizuku

What would you say to them about the way their lives have been negatively impacted? Because they don't seem to have noticed.

My life has never been impacted by climate change. After all, I live on a hill so sea level rise is not a big concern. Doesn't mean that I am not concerned about how it affects humanity as a whole though.

Strangely every person who has said they believe, don’t when you scratch the surface and ask questions. Even just mild questions such as ‘how can someone change sex’? Then when you ask about women’s sports, no one I have met believes it.

I think you are right. There seems to probably be millions of people who say they do. But there are billions, literally billions who will never believe it.

Activists keep trying to tell the world the majority believe that ridiculous sloganeering. No survey has ever proved them correct when the questions move to the realities. So those activists keep lying. Such as the yougov survey. The moment the question tested the belief when put into practice, the majority quickly increased even further.

It must be very dissatisfying to see that your effort are based on virtue signaling only. There are no foundations and the more it is tested, the crumblier those foundations become. But.

That is what happens when your ‘truth’ is actually provably and obviously a lie.

Should a trans woman in need of a blood transfusion be given my (O neg) blood ?

I have been pregnant multiple times.

I understand that a biological male has about 13 percent increased risk of dying from my blood whereas a biological female would be fine.

Are trans women women?

WoolOfBat

Always a good question. Also, if a transwoman present at A&E with any significant health issue, should the doctors evaluate the test results as a woman or a man? Or better yet a trans patient with their own significant and unique needs?

It seems the answer to the OP's question is - anything you want because they won't listen or engage anyway.

As usual, waiting to be proved wrong.

Why are people even giving this goady thread the time of day? There are loads of threads setting out the GC position.