Genital Inspections

[ASugarr]

The Florida House passed a bill on April 14, 2021, that would ban trans girls and women from playing on high school and collegiate teams. It would also allow schools to require a genital inspection of student athletes suspected of being trans.
t.co/CMRxJnHgV2

This is child sexual abuse. I hope this never ends up happening in the UK. Trans girls and women deserve to play in women's sports. Trans boys and men deserve to play in men's sports. Period.

@LastRoloIsMine

Has the OP flounced?

Unlikely

I know people are busy talking about the fact the bill has been massively misrepresented by the OP which is important.

I want to come back to an extremely unimportant point about cheer supposedly being fine from a mixed sex perspective because it is totally incorrect and its bugging me.

I competed for 5 years on an all girl squad, winning national championships. Years of weight training and perfection of skills meant the female bases (at the bottom of the formations) were able to throw the flyers (small girls at the top) to do impressive stunts, baskets etc. There was no way in hell we'd ever be able to compete with co-ed teams. In fact, on occasion we'd get complete amateur men in to help us run through ideas for formations by holding up pyramids and these guys with no cheer training at all could easily match us with minimal effort.

If you got rid of the single sex division for cheerleading, around 70% of my squad (the bases) would lose the opportunity to compete. We'd have gone from being the top ranked all female squad in our region to not making the hurdle to compete. The fact that there are many mixed sex squads working collaboratively does not mean women and men can compete on equal terms.

Also, trans identified teens who go on puberty blockers may have bone issues that mean athletic achievements are reduced or risk broken bones.

That's also child abuse.

Those concerned with fairness and safety in female sports should consider completing and sharing the following questionaires:

England Rugby (closes 5th May)
www.englandrugby.com/about-rfu/rfu-policies/transgender-policy

thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4206745-Rugby-RFU-seeking-feedback-on-its-transgender-policy

British Cycling Consultation (ends 30/4)
www.britishcycling.org.uk/about/article/20210325-about-bc-news-British-Cycling-launches-consultation-on-Transgender-participation-policy-0

thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4202090-British-Cycling-Consultation-on-Transgender-Policy

They are not forcing children to take their pants off at the side of a football field before they play. A physical examination is one of many ways of determining their sex, done by a qualified health care professional with consent. You are frothing over a non issue.

@transbadger

This thread should have ended at "croquet".

I'll add some more examples of competitive sports with no gender disadvantage:

Reading
Jigsaw puzzles
Afternoon tea assembling
Cat patting
Nipping to the shops

I have medals in all of these.

🦡💨

I think you are doing a disservice to croquet. Whilst it might be better know for its 'other sport' the All England Lawn Tennis and Croquet Club is a huge and respected organisation.

What a provocative title, op.

Am so glad that it’s based on a misunderstanding and we were able to clear it up for you.

Because this seems to be the only section where a discussion on trans rights issues take place.

Aaah so your post IS intended to be about trans people in sports!

Glad we cleared that up OP.

Examination isn't necessary and is a step too far. A doctor's note or birth certificate would suffice.

I don't, however, believe it is fair for a woman's team to play against someone who is biologically male, or fair for a male team to have a member who is biologically female. The differences in body mass and strength would make a huge difference.

What's to stop women's team being completely made up of trans women, effectively making a all female team play against an all male team?

I don't know what the answer is because obviously everyone should be able to play competitive sport but it's not right to have someone of the opposite sex on a team.

I think physical exam does refer to genital inspection. A cheek swab would surely be a dna exam?

I don’t think it’s right to have the physical examination as one of the options. This is always going to be about girls being inspected. There will be pressure to go for the physical examination as its quicker and cheaper. I can certainly imagine a pushy coach pressurising a girl to just go and who her knickers off so she can compete there and then.

Yes, professional athletes have to do dug tests, but this is for all sports and it’s for children. They should definitely remove the physical exam part. I’m not sure what the best way to do this would be, I certainly think transgirls have no place in the vast majority of competitive sports - including dancing and cheerleading, which are both very physical. I don’t know what the laws are on gp revealing sex information, but there has to be some other solution that could fulfill the need for sex segregation without u involving girls being pressured to strip.

@Sophoclesthefox

What a provocative title, op.

Am so glad that it’s based on a misunderstanding and we were able to clear it up for you.

Quite! It must be draining to be constantly that upset over misunderstandings.

This criteria is already in place at higher levels (Caster Semenya) no one is saying kids have to have their genitalia examined- there are several different routes. I agree with the protection of sex based athletics

That's really interesting thank you MoltenLasagne

I think it's easy to be misinformed about sports until you've actually done them yourself to a high level -I'd certainly never have realised that about cheerleading.

Some of the kids on twitter, and I think OP here too, have clearly never done any sort of contact sport at a high level (or possibly any level) and certainly not a mixed sex one

OP's comment about allowing testosterone/PEDs for legitimate medical reasons actually made me laugh out loud within a year almost every competing athlete in the country would have developed a psychological condition requiring this treatment

@Nellodee

I think physical exam does refer to genital inspection. A cheek swab would surely be a dna exam?

I don’t think it’s right to have the physical examination as one of the options. This is always going to be about girls being inspected. There will be pressure to go for the physical examination as its quicker and cheaper. I can certainly imagine a pushy coach pressurising a girl to just go and who her knickers off so she can compete there and then.

Yes, professional athletes have to do dug tests, but this is for all sports and it’s for children. They should definitely remove the physical exam part. I’m not sure what the best way to do this would be, I certainly think transgirls have no place in the vast majority of competitive sports - including dancing and cheerleading, which are both very physical. I don’t know what the laws are on gp revealing sex information, but there has to be some other solution that could fulfill the need for sex segregation without u involving girls being pressured to strip.

Wouldn't it be One cheek swab, once only tho. Not every time? You'd carry your documentation with you.

@Creepygnochi

People get excluded for medical therapies all the time. Hell, Duretics are now a banned substance under the World anti doping angency.

There are many people excluded from sports because of their medication, and because of their decisions to choose certain treatments.

This is always conveniently forgotten in this push for including males in segregated female sports.

It is also conveniently forgotten that if a sport can be ‘mixed sex’ as OP states, there are mixed sex teams already available for people who have transitioned to join if they choose not to (or in the case of transmen, cannot) compete with their own sex.

Transpeople are NOT banned from sports at all. But headlines miss the click baity appeal to state the reality don’t they?

A cheek swab would be totally fine, probably best done at the beginning of a season to all players. I’m not sure what the cost implications of that are?
I’d imagine there’s probably a market for a 15 minute on the spot test to be developed, if one doesn’t already exist.

What's to stop women's team being completely made up of trans women, effectively making a all female team play against an all male team?

There is a women’s team where I believed this happened. In Iran at one stage the majority of the team were male.

Iranian women’s football team that should be.

I think physical exam does refer to genital inspection. A cheek swab would surely be a dna exam?

DNA is physical evidence and a cheek swap is a physical intervention. The opposite of physical in this sense is psychological.

@Tibtom

And bowls is extremely popular in Scotland. That doesn't prove that men have no advantage over women in competitive team sports.

Examples given by OP to prove there's no unfair advantage are croquet and cheerleading ffs. Skill? Sure. Athleticism. Yep. Obfuscating the point? You betcha.

Lets throw chess and scrabble into the mix if we're trying to avoid the obvious issues.

🦡🌈🤍

Whether or not physical testing only refers to genital checking, it certainly could refer to genital checking. If it is in the wording, then pressure will be applied to some girls to strip. If it refers to dna testing only, this should be made explicit.

What's to stop women's team being completely made up of trans women,

That would be the logical outcome.

@Nellodee

I think physical exam does refer to genital inspection. A cheek swab would surely be a dna exam?

I don’t think it’s right to have the physical examination as one of the options. This is always going to be about girls being inspected. There will be pressure to go for the physical examination as its quicker and cheaper. I can certainly imagine a pushy coach pressurising a girl to just go and who her knickers off so she can compete there and then.

Yes, professional athletes have to do dug tests, but this is for all sports and it’s for children. They should definitely remove the physical exam part. I’m not sure what the best way to do this would be, I certainly think transgirls have no place in the vast majority of competitive sports - including dancing and cheerleading, which are both very physical. I don’t know what the laws are on gp revealing sex information, but there has to be some other solution that could fulfill the need for sex segregation without u involving girls being pressured to strip.

The physical exam almost certainly does refer to an inspection of genitalia, but the rule very specifically refers to a medical certificate based on the examination. Any coach suggesting girls reveal their genitalia on the side of the pitch would indeed be an example of sexual abuse.

Can you show me which part of the rules encourages or normalises this course of action?

What's to stop women's team being completely made up of trans women

What's to stop a female team (girls or women) being completely made up of male competitors?

Thanks for the info @MoltenLasagne

I don't know of any competitive team sports where men wouldn't wipe the floor with women in direct competition.