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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Genital Inspections

999 replies

ASugarr · 18/04/2021 05:24

The Florida House passed a bill on April 14, 2021, that would ban trans girls and women from playing on high school and collegiate teams. It would also allow schools to require a genital inspection of student athletes suspected of being trans.
t.co/CMRxJnHgV2

This is child sexual abuse. I hope this never ends up happening in the UK. Trans girls and women deserve to play in women's sports. Trans boys and men deserve to play in men's sports. Period.

OP posts:
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WoolOfBat · 18/04/2021 20:36

Please can everyone calm down and be respectful.

In order to keep this thread up I suggest that we stick to the topic (genital inspections) and keep it factual.

OP your Twitter post does not in my opinion reflect what has been posted on this thread.

I think it would be good for the OP’s Twitter followers to be able to make up their own minds about the bill from the help of the links provided here. Furthermore, I believe that this thread has shown beyond doubt that the OPs fears of impromptu genital inspections are beyond far fetched. It will not happen.

As a separate issue, this thread strayed into the territory of “should trans girls / trans women be allowed in girls / women’s sports” and in that context lots of facts and research links. I don’t consider that discussion transphobic.

I have not seen any transphobia, if I had I would have reported it.

ASugarr · 18/04/2021 20:36

@newstart1337

If separate sex sports were abolished what would happen to people who felt uncomfortable playing in a team with men. They would be unable to play sports. Wouldn't that be unfair?
There can still be women's teams. If that's what people want then sure. But trans women are women so they should be included. Including women who have been stopped from participating due to high levels of testosterone like I mentioned earlier.
OP posts:
ASugarr · 18/04/2021 20:37

@WoolOfBat

Please can everyone calm down and be respectful.

In order to keep this thread up I suggest that we stick to the topic (genital inspections) and keep it factual.

OP your Twitter post does not in my opinion reflect what has been posted on this thread.

I think it would be good for the OP’s Twitter followers to be able to make up their own minds about the bill from the help of the links provided here. Furthermore, I believe that this thread has shown beyond doubt that the OPs fears of impromptu genital inspections are beyond far fetched. It will not happen.

As a separate issue, this thread strayed into the territory of “should trans girls / trans women be allowed in girls / women’s sports” and in that context lots of facts and research links. I don’t consider that discussion transphobic.

I have not seen any transphobia, if I had I would have reported it.

Okay I understand your view. I personally disagree but thank you for keeping it respectful.
OP posts:
BlueLipstickRocks · 18/04/2021 20:38

I actually have spoken with MN about how much I enjoy the platform other than the feminism section that regularly turns into a place for transphobia and homophobia

The strange thing is I don't really see tranphobia on here.
What I do see is plenty of so called allies telling me I'm supposed to be offended!

Is so good to have people like the OP telling me what to be offended by.

Leafstamp · 18/04/2021 20:39

@ASugarr

To ask for a third time, given that sports are and are likely to continue to be segregated by sex, and that you disagree with the bill, how do you propose that the sex-segregation rule that allows girls to play safely and fairly will be upheld? Given you are a feminist of course.

ASugarr · 18/04/2021 20:39

@BlueLipstickRocks

I actually have spoken with MN about how much I enjoy the platform other than the feminism section that regularly turns into a place for transphobia and homophobia

The strange thing is I don't really see tranphobia on here.
What I do see is plenty of so called allies telling me I'm supposed to be offended!

Is so good to have people like the OP telling me what to be offended by.

And I'm being told I should be offended by certain things too. Which I don't agree to. I'm talking on my view and my views only. If you disagree then you disagree. That's cool with me. However I do stick to my view.
OP posts:
BaseDrops · 18/04/2021 20:39

Anyone who was picked last in games has suffered emotional trauma. It doesn’t mean we set up complex modelling to calculate everyone’s starting place on the track to run 100 metres. In national academic exams we have reasonable adjustments for disabilities. It doesn’t get adjusted because of different academic ability.

transbadger · 18/04/2021 20:40

Okay so to be clear, if this were to happen in the UK you would be okay with your child (transgender or not) to have a genital examination if you didn't bring their birth certificate to every sports game? You'd be okay for someone to do that to your child?

How can we be this far into the thread and you are still misrepresenting what the Bill states?

EdgeOfACoin · 18/04/2021 20:41

[quote Leafstamp]**@ASugarr

To ask for a third time, given that sports are and are likely to continue to be segregated by sex, and that you disagree with the bill, how do you propose that the sex-segregation rule that allows girls to play safely and fairly will be upheld? Given you are a feminist of course.[/quote]
@ASugarr

I too would like to know your answer to this.

countrypunk · 18/04/2021 20:41

Hello @ASugarr. I've seen you popping up on a lot of related threads recently. It's my opinion that you're a spin doctor and a propagandist. Your posts are either incredibly ignorant or deliberately goady. I just wanted to let you know that I see you, as no doubt do many others.

Nameitychangity · 18/04/2021 20:42

If sex was no longer a defining characteristic in sport, guess what would happen?
Teams would pick the best, fastest, strongest people up to the job to make their team WIN.
Guess who those people would be?
What possible characteristic might they all share?

And what would then happen to the other athletes and players?

Logical conclusion is that those people would be prevented from playing because their physicality isn't up to the job.
Very fair.

Mcboo5 · 18/04/2021 20:42

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

Examples, please, of competitive sports where women play or compete on equal terms with men and win half the time.
Yeah I'll be waiting on this 'long' list too. 🙄
ASugarr · 18/04/2021 20:44

@transbadger

Okay so to be clear, if this were to happen in the UK you would be okay with your child (transgender or not) to have a genital examination if you didn't bring their birth certificate to every sports game? You'd be okay for someone to do that to your child?

How can we be this far into the thread and you are still misrepresenting what the Bill states?

But I haven't. I've literally quoted it and shown it fully. Without documentation on the participant, it could lead to them further testing and questioning their sex including a genital inspection. Which as we've seen from known instances like the american gymnastics team and their medical team, I don't think this is okay. And it doesn't even just affect transgender children. It affects all children. Adults, I'd understand. Children, no.
OP posts:
ASugarr · 18/04/2021 20:45

@countrypunk

Hello *@ASugarr*. I've seen you popping up on a lot of related threads recently. It's my opinion that you're a spin doctor and a propagandist. Your posts are either incredibly ignorant or deliberately goady. I just wanted to let you know that I see you, as no doubt do many others.
Thank you 🤍
OP posts:
goldielockdown2 · 18/04/2021 20:45

Hopefully your mind has been put at rest now A by the many, many assurances here that you actually got it wrong and you have no need for concern. Phew!

ASugarr · 18/04/2021 20:46

@youvegottenminuteslynn

OP just now: "Personally my view is that sports shouldn't be separated by sex."

Do you not even realise what you're saying at this point? You just said that. But...

OP earlier: "There's quite a few personally I think we shouldn't be separated for. " (implying they believe there are some sports we should be separated for)

Also OP earlier: "for some sports I can see the concern however I don't think this should be a rule for all sports." (Implying they believe there are some sports we should be separated for due to legitimate concerns)

Oh and also OP earlier: "Trans girls and women deserve to play in women's sports. Trans boys and men deserve to play in men's sports." Does not tally with the statements above.

The flip flopping and lack of consistency must be exhausting for you OP.

It's because people aren't staying on topic. They are bringing adults in sports and more into this which is an entirely different argument.
OP posts:
Theunamedcat · 18/04/2021 20:47

@Nameitychangity

If sex was no longer a defining characteristic in sport, guess what would happen? Teams would pick the best, fastest, strongest people up to the job to make their team WIN. Guess who those people would be? What possible characteristic might they all share?

And what would then happen to the other athletes and players?

Logical conclusion is that those people would be prevented from playing because their physicality isn't up to the job.
Very fair.

They would be prevented from playing in league games and for money I suppose they could set up there own clubs and leagues but they would be invaded again quite quickly
Erkrie · 18/04/2021 20:48

I agree to some sex based rights however not everything is revolved around it. That's now become a buzzword for all sorts yet sex based rights are more in terms of medical rights and etc.

That's nice that you agree to some sex based rights for women. Luckily the bill doesn't require, ask for, or need your agreement for women to have sex segregated sport. 😉

#Sex based rights are human rights.
#Woman rights are human rights
#keep women's sport single sex

youvegottenminuteslynn · 18/04/2021 20:48

Disingenuous at best. So disappointing to never acknowledge that your points have been so inconsistent.

Did you read the full bill yet?

CirclesWithinCircles · 18/04/2021 20:51

There can still be women's teams. If that's what people want then sure. But trans women are women so they should be included. Including women who have been stopped from participating due to high levels of testosterone like I mentioned earlier.

Why? Because you say so isn't really a valid argument. There has been a fully argued case by CAS (the Court of Arbitration for Sport) which has settled the issue beyond further appeal, so I have no idea on what grounds you think this fantasy outcome would occur. Disregarding the rule of law perhaps?

Do you actually know what a valid argument is? Are you going to take it the wrong way if I ask you whether you have been to university and educated in how to construct and justify a point of view, using evidence and critical analysis?

Because you certainly don't give that impression. Occasionally you quote random, biased sources but you still don't manage to concoct any form of universally recognised justification.

You also clearly know very very little about competitive sport and are not a competitor - unlike me. I have medals at athletics, and have represented my county, and certainly know a lot of the upset that Lauren Jeska (formerly the male runner Michael Jameson) caused by taking away championships from women, long before she was sent to prison, because she was so obviously benefitted from a male phenotype when racing.

Your example of gymnastics, as a sport, shows just how ridiculous your proposition is. To have male-female trans athletes competing as women gymnasts would make the sport a laughing stock.

Nameitychangity · 18/04/2021 20:52

""It's because people aren't staying on topic. They are bringing adults in sports and more into this....."

Below is a quote from you upthread.

"Trans girls and women deserve to play in women's sports. Trans boys and men deserve to play in men's sports."

You, yourself, said trans people should be allowed to play sports in adult (mens and womens) teams? So which is it? Is it just relevant to children's teams, or adults teams, or both?

BaseDrops · 18/04/2021 20:52

How has any American child got into school or sports undocumented?

They have to provide evidence of vaccinations to attend school so they will have seen a doctor. If home schooled they will still have a birth certificate.

CirclesWithinCircles · 18/04/2021 20:52

It's because people aren't staying on topic. They are bringing adults in sports and more into this which is an entirely different argument.

Its actually you who did that, by introducing the concept of women's teams and talking about intersex athletes and gymnastics.

Try to be consistent!

newstart1337 · 18/04/2021 20:53

But that does put them in harm of hate crimes and being outted. That does cause harm
The teenagers will already know if a boy saying they are a girl suddenly starts to play on their team. And any hate crime/bullying can be dealt with as per policy's all ready in place.

The solution isn't to put 50% of the population (aka girls) in a position of physical harm by placing them in front of bigger stronger boys. Its to have girls and boys in separate teams.

There can still be women's teams. If that's what people want then sure. But trans women are women so they should be included
How can you have women only teams if you allow transwomen onto them making them unisex teams! And if women/girls feel uncomfortable with that then you will be denying a lot of women/girls the human right to play sports. That is so unkind.

AfternoonToffee · 18/04/2021 20:54

I am not sure we should be using national gymnastic teams as any sort of reference point for anything. There are some absolutely shocking practices, hopefully not on the same scale as in the past, but they still go on. Gymnastics (national competing level) has always been a law unto themselves, and I have no doubt that things such as this has happened somewhere in the world.

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