Genital Inspections

[ASugarr]

The Florida House passed a bill on April 14, 2021, that would ban trans girls and women from playing on high school and collegiate teams. It would also allow schools to require a genital inspection of student athletes suspected of being trans.
t.co/CMRxJnHgV2

This is child sexual abuse. I hope this never ends up happening in the UK. Trans girls and women deserve to play in women's sports. Trans boys and men deserve to play in men's sports. Period.

@RedDogsBeg

Threads deleted, posts deleted, posters warned, posters reported to MNHQ by the OP, all part of an ongoing pattern.

I have not once asked for a thread to be taken down completely or have emailed MNHQ for specific postets to be banned. I haven't even reported posts.

Where's the lie? They specifically said The bill, which is modeled after an Idaho law that was temporarily struck down by a federal judge last year, allows a school or competitor to lodge a complaint about an athlete competing in a girls’ or woman’s sport. If the party complaining suspects the athlete was not assigned the female gender at birth, the athlete in question will have to prove their birth gender — via a genetic test, a test of their testosterone levels or an examination of their reproductive anatomy by a medical professional — in order to compete.
Yes it won't be the first or main way of checking however for it to even be an option is undeniably wrong.

and yet you posted this @ASugarr:

and I'll be contacting MumsNet about those making insulting claims to me and others.

What is that if not a threat to report certain posters?

It's an incredible coincidence that many of the threads you start or post on are deleted.

@ASugarr

Where's the lie? They specifically said The bill, which is modeled after an Idaho law that was temporarily struck down by a federal judge last year, allows a school or competitor to lodge a complaint about an athlete competing in a girls’ or woman’s sport. If the party complaining suspects the athlete was not assigned the female gender at birth, the athlete in question will have to prove their birth gender — via a genetic test, a test of their testosterone levels or an examination of their reproductive anatomy by a medical professional — in order to compete. Yes it won't be the first or main way of checking however for it to even be an option is undeniably wrong.

Again, you didn't say that it was an option and you felt that was wrong.

You said it is going to be required.

You got it wrong. You cited an opponent of the bill when people originally challenged you on it being an option rather than a requirement. You doubled down.

Then, when challenged further you conceded that it was an option rather than a requirement but don't seem to understand how that means your initial post is entirely misrepresentative of the bill in question.

It was an untruth that genital identification will be required. An untruth, an incorrect interpretation.

Again, answer honestly - have you actually read the bill in question? Not just articles about it with biased sources (of any opinion, whether ones you agree with or not), but the actual text of the bill?

@RedDogsBeg

and yet you posted this *@ASugarr*:

and I'll be contacting MumsNet about those making insulting claims to me and others.

What is that if not a threat to report certain posters?

It's an incredible coincidence that many of the threads you start or post on are deleted.

About those who are making personal claims yes. I will today. Because they are the reason the threads keep getting taken down by not sticking to the subject at hand and instead insulting myself and others with opposing views.

OP is a self-identified health educator in this field. I'm surprised that she has not seen fit to read the extensive, fully evidenced materials provided by posters on this thread.

Keeping up with current, evidenced based knowledge on one's subject, is surely a prerequisite for any health/education role.

"Personal claims"? Stating something about themselves? That's not a breach of talk guidelines afaik.

It would also allow schools to require a genital inspection of student athletes suspected of being trans.

Yes it won't be the first or main way of checking

So your OP, as copied in the first quote is wrong, as shown in the second quote?
So you either lied, or misunderstood.
If you lied, more fool you. Haven't you learnt yet that MNetters are clever and will outsmart you.
If you made a mistake, why not just say "Oh i misunderstood that then! Thanks for clearing it up and putting my mind at rest"

@ASugarr

Where's the lie? They specifically said The bill, which is modeled after an Idaho law that was temporarily struck down by a federal judge last year, allows a school or competitor to lodge a complaint about an athlete competing in a girls’ or woman’s sport. If the party complaining suspects the athlete was not assigned the female gender at birth, the athlete in question will have to prove their birth gender — via a genetic test, a test of their testosterone levels or an examination of their reproductive anatomy by a medical professional — in order to compete. Yes it won't be the first or main way of checking however for it to even be an option is undeniably wrong.

The lie is in the thread title and your first post.

PS. There is no such thing as birth gender. This statement alone makes me think you are very confused about the whole thing.

I suggest we leave it here so that ASugar can't complete the final part of her plop and get those useful thread taken down.

@WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo

It would also allow schools to require a genital inspection of student athletes suspected of being trans.

Yes it won't be the first or main way of checking

So your OP, as copied in the first quote is wrong, as shown in the second quote?
So you either lied, or misunderstood.
If you lied, more fool you. Haven't you learnt yet that MNetters are clever and will outsmart you.
If you made a mistake, why not just say "Oh i misunderstood that then! Thanks for clearing it up and putting my mind at rest"

It would require a genital inspection if they didn't have documentation on them or they questioned the legitimacy of the documentation. It's so silly that people don't understand that it isn't the fact this isn't the first point of call or anything, it's the fact this is even being allowed to happen. At all. No child should have to go through that just to partake in a sport. Just because someone suspects something. Its wrong.

. Because they are the reason the threads keep getting taken down by not sticking to the subject at hand and instead insulting myself and others with opposing views

Lol! insulting yourself and others with opposing views!!

I've fucking read it all now. Wah wah wah!! 👶🏻

@Nodal

I suggest we leave it here so that ASugar can't complete the final part of her plop and get those useful thread taken down.

I agree.

That's your opinion. I think differently.

And as I said OP, one would think that if you actually cared about the children the bill will affect, you would be relieved to hear you were incorrect in your belief genital inspection would be required? Instead you seem combative and defensive (dare I say angry that you were challenged and demonstrably wrong) instead of just admitting you got that wrong and / or haven't read the bill yourself.

I don't want this thread taken down. If this happens in this country and mothers ate rightfully outraged I want them to know that there are women out there who think this is okay.

This is among the most disturbing parts of the bill: competitors or schools can challenge anyone’s gender. At which point, they’re tossed from the field and their parents have to foot the bill for DNA testing/hormone tests/genital inspections to prove their kid belongs.

Isn’t it odd that when it comes to legislation that is so badly worded that it appears the intention might be to reduce the age of consent to 10 or with self-ID that would allow any man, for any reason he wanted, to sign a declaration and be given women’s legal rights, that we are told that we are being utterly unreasonable when we point out that people are not always wholly trustworthy.

And yet when the boot is on the other foot, suddenly all human beings are awful and will not only jump through loopholes, but will openly abuse any rules put in place to protect female children, even if those rules have been working adequately for years without anyone objecting at all when it was only female children who were likely to be affected.

@ASugarr

Where's the lie? They specifically said The bill, which is modeled after an Idaho law that was temporarily struck down by a federal judge last year, allows a school or competitor to lodge a complaint about an athlete competing in a girls’ or woman’s sport. If the party complaining suspects the athlete was not assigned the female gender at birth, the athlete in question will have to prove their birth gender — via a genetic test, a test of their testosterone levels or an examination of their reproductive anatomy by a medical professional — in order to compete. Yes it won't be the first or main way of checking however for it to even be an option is undeniably wrong.

What is a ‘birth gender’? How can you ‘identify’ as anything at the moment you are born? How does a genetic test prove your birth gender? Genes have nothing to do with the social construct known as ‘gender’. Maybe you’ve got confused by genes/ gender sounding similar. They’re not.

About those who are making personal claims yes. I will today. Because they are the reason the threads keep getting taken down by not sticking to the subject at hand and instead insulting myself and others with opposing views.

Insulting you by opposing your view? Seriously, is this what you mean?

Personal claims personal to them or you?

What kind of parameters are you trying to dictate on this discussion forum?

@ASugarr

I don't want this thread taken down. If this happens in this country and mothers ate rightfully outraged I want them to know that there are women out there who think this is okay.

Bloody women, eh? Wanting girls and women to compete safely and fairly in sport. Burn the witches...

As you mature you'll become more able to accept being challenged on things and graciously admitting you misread / misunderstood / misinterpreted / didnt fact check etc.

It would require a genital inspection if they didn't have documentation on them or they questioned the legitimacy of the documentation

Repeating a lie over and over doesn’t make it true.

It would require a genital inspection if they didn't have documentation on them or they questioned the legitimacy of the documentation.

Why? As PPs have repeatedly stated, many competitive sports require documentation such as birth certificates/passports, to ensure eligibility for age categories, & this would also cover sex categories.

So it's the coach's job to gather that information & have it to hand.

Why would anyone '...question the legitimacy of the documentation'? Are you suggesting birth certificates & passports might contain inaccurate information?

That would certainly need tightening up on, then.

Oh & again - as you've been repeatedly told - cheek swab, job done.

@youvegottenminuteslynn

And as I said OP, one would think that if you actually cared about the children the bill will affect, you would be relieved to hear you were incorrect in your belief genital inspection would be required? Instead you seem combative and defensive (dare I say angry that you were challenged and demonstrably wrong) instead of just admitting you got that wrong and / or haven't read the bill yourself.

I'm completely fine, not angry in any way. My apologies if you took me saying it's required as it must happen. What I meant was that without documentation it is required if the child wishes to participate in the sport which I find incredibly wrong.

It would require a genital inspection if they didn't have documentation on them or they questioned the legitimacy of the documentation. It's so silly that people don't understand that it isn't the fact this isn't the first point of call or anything, it's the fact this is even being allowed to happen. At all. No child should have to go through that just to partake in a sport. Just because someone suspects something. Its wrong.

No it wouldn't ffs. Can you even begin to imagine the convo...
Teacher: "Hi Sarah. Jane said you were actually born male so you can't play on the girls team."
Sarah: "what? That's ridiculous. I'm a girl"
Teacher: " Well I'm afraid I'll have to see proof. Do you have your birth certificate?"
Sarah: " uhhhh no. Weirdly enough I don't bring that to school"
Teacher: " Well in that case I just have to see your vulva. Please drop your pants immediately"

Surely it's far more likely that a)Sarah's birth is already on her school records. Or B) the conversation would be had, possibly with her parents depending on her age and there would be opportunities for her to bring the relevant documents in.

It seems that the word require is another one that seems to have a different meaning to what I've always been told. Soon I'll be able to use all the words in the world to mean whatever I want them too and speak even more gobbledegook than I do anyway.

& that documentation is routinely required & always has been.

Who are all these kids rocking up without it? Should we let them compete in whichever age category they like without checking?