Genital Inspections

[ASugarr]

The Florida House passed a bill on April 14, 2021, that would ban trans girls and women from playing on high school and collegiate teams. It would also allow schools to require a genital inspection of student athletes suspected of being trans.
t.co/CMRxJnHgV2

This is child sexual abuse. I hope this never ends up happening in the UK. Trans girls and women deserve to play in women's sports. Trans boys and men deserve to play in men's sports. Period.

So if a girl happens to have XY chromosomes, she has to opt for the vaginal examination?

VSDs are a whole other question. This thread relates to a ruling in a US state, where I'd hope a postpubertal child with CAIS (I assume that's what you mean?) would be correctly diagnosed.

@BlueLipstickRocks

Firstly, not all trans women are stronger than cis females. Especially if they are on puberty blockers they wouldn't be. So that is a myth

A transwoman wouldn't be on puberty blockers they would be on testosterone blockers and cross sex hormones. Only children are on puberty blockers and as far as I concerned a child on puberty blockers is a child being abused and experimented on.

If I assume the intended statement relates to testosterone blockers then this is blatantly false. The best case scenario is still a 9% advantage.

Can I just say YOU ROCK.

Honestly, sometimes I despair at the utter unadulterated and unresearched trash I read from trans activists and begin to wonder if there is any logic and reason at all on the other side of the debate. Your thoughtful and reasoned responses in this and other threads have proved to me that there are actually trans people who have maintained a modicum of common sense and logic and just want to live their lives peacefully as is their right, without trampling over the rights of other people.
Thank you.

Just gotten back from a lovely day out. Since it's clear people are once again making personal insults I won't be commenting further and I'll be contacting MumsNet about those making insulting claims to me and others. This page is literally about having a debate however it is clear that many can't keep the discussion civil without making petty jokes or insulting others for their view. Thank you for those who have participated kindly in the discussion from both sides 🤍

I think you've missed the article to begin with where this is about children primarily.

Not getting much traction and even trans people disagreeing with you? Time to get the thread deleted then, as predicted back on page 2. Oh well, plenty of interesting and intelligent debate while you were away and plenty of people now know no one is getting mandatory genital exams, your work here is done!

Flounce number 2. As ever, ASugarr will prove to be a boomerang.

@ASugarr

I think you've missed the article to begin with where this is about children primarily.

No, we read the bill you shared and let you know you misread / misinterpreted / didn't fact check assertions from opposers of the bill, which you stated as fact.

The bill does NOT require genital inspection. You said it did and that it would be child abuse.

It doesn't require genital inspection. So you were wrong. One would think that if you actually cared about the children the bill will affect, you would be relieved to hear you were incorrect in your belief genital inspection would be required? Instead you seem combative and defensive instead of just admitting you got that wrong.

@NotTerfNorCis

If someone makes a habit of starting threads that attract hundreds of posts, then asks MNHQ to delete those threads because they didn't go the way she liked, I suggest that person should be banned from starting threads because otherwise it's a waste of everyone's time.

Not a waste of time. The thread was trending for a while.

Women from other areas of the forum will have read it and seen some of the arguments which favour male feelings over girl’s rights and the hyperbolic and false arguments that are made to try to hide what’s being done to girls sports.

It’s all sunlight.

That's true anyoldprion. More sunlight is always helpful.

@Nodal

Not getting much traction and even trans people disagreeing with you? Time to get the thread deleted then, as predicted back on page 2. Oh well, plenty of interesting and intelligent debate while you were away and plenty of people now know no one is getting mandatory genital exams, your work here is done!

Wholesale deletion would remove all the useful links debunking arguments that trans boys and trans women women have no particular advantage in sport compared with natal women. I have no doubt that a number of posters would like to see that happen. For a thread that began with either blatant misrepresentation or, to be charitable, catastrophic misunderstanding, it has been surprisingly informative.

I agree, it's useful for the fence sitters to see how the TRAs operate - not answering direct questions, attacking or acting butt-hurt when people express concern for them, getting annoyed that people reference their personal details when they specifically invited people on here to their Twitter profile to try and get the twitter big hitters to like them etc. etc. I know this OP is only 25 (because she's told us) and she doesn't have as much life experience yet as perhaps some of us MN users have but, really, it's time to grow up and not kick the board over because you haven't convinced any nasty cis terfs or whatever our label is today that this bill, or anything, is transphobic.

Having your arse handed to you is an FWR rite of passage. It's poor form to try and get threads deleted when it happens to you.

@Nodal

I agree, it's useful for the fence sitters to see how the TRAs operate - not answering direct questions, attacking or acting butt-hurt when people express concern for them, getting annoyed that people reference their personal details when they specifically invited people on here to their Twitter profile to try and get the twitter big hitters to like them etc. etc. I know this OP is only 25 (because she's told us) and she doesn't have as much life experience yet as perhaps some of us MN users have but, really, it's time to grow up and not kick the board over because you haven't convinced any nasty cis terfs or whatever our label is today that this bill, or anything, is transphobic.

Wannabee omnipotent for some reason sprung to my mind.

I am just confused that OP is going on about genital examination (which never was proposed to be any main option). Why should some kind of certification be intrusive?

Even in boys’ under-9 football a copy of the passport is asked for at the start of each season in order to register the players for the league. That actually handily has sex in it I think.

Threads deleted, posts deleted, posters warned, posters reported to MNHQ by the OP, all part of an ongoing pattern.

@Nodal

I agree, it's useful for the fence sitters to see how the TRAs operate - not answering direct questions, attacking or acting butt-hurt when people express concern for them, getting annoyed that people reference their personal details when they specifically invited people on here to their Twitter profile to try and get the twitter big hitters to like them etc. etc. I know this OP is only 25 (because she's told us) and she doesn't have as much life experience yet as perhaps some of us MN users have but, really, it's time to grow up and not kick the board over because you haven't convinced any nasty cis terfs or whatever our label is today that this bill, or anything, is transphobic.

Totally agree re it shining a light on the issues and tactics going on. I also appreciate OP is relatively young. But no matter what age I've been, I've always been able to say ah shit I read that wrong / misunderstood / should have fact checked etc. The inability of some posters to do so is what makes them come across as disingenuous (and arrogant) and it's incredibly damaging to the discussion in general.

I am just confused that OP is going on about genital examination (which never was proposed to be any main option).

That's the attack angle that TRAs took. They're particularly keen on emphasising how it will affect biological females who're suspected of being male. I personally think that a) that's unlikely to happen, b) in the tiny number of cases it does happen, the girl would probably to glad to provide proof if it protects fairness in sport and c) that proof almost certainly wouldn't involve a 'genital inspection', just a birth certificate or doctor's note.

twitter.com/OmariJHardy/status/1382521994554572804

We gave everything we had to give. We reasoned, we shouted, we pleaded, we cried, we broke down & left the House Floor. But today, FL Republicans passed a bill not only banning trans kids from playing sports but subjecting kids whose sex may be disputed to genital inspections.

twitter.com/VBerryBoy/status/1382884293001773057

This is literally just sexism. Transmisogyny. They're subjecting anyone they THINK is a trans girl to genital inspections (this WILL affect cis girls too) but said "fuck it, trans men can play as either men or women, bc they dont matter." The intention has always been clear.

twitter.com/MavenOfMayhem/status/1382692263118188553

A law that allows Literal. Genital. Inspections. On. Children. Let that is sink in.

twitter.com/PinkRangerLyra/status/1383561305471086597

I’m not the first to point out those horrible Florida genital inspections for kids’ sports will also effect cis kids. But it just struck me, trans kids will be too scared to enroll on teams reflecting their gender so probably ONLY cis kids will be getting their genitals inspected

twitter.com/bjoewolf/status/1382581549523161090

This is among the most disturbing parts of the bill: competitors or schools can challenge anyone’s gender. At which point, they’re tossed from the field and their parents have to foot the bill for DNA testing/hormone tests/genital inspections to prove their kid belongs.

Just to point out that @MNHQ doesn't do what some posters think it does. You have @ an individual MNHQer, report a post or thread or email [email protected].

Or, of course, berate them on Twitter, which seems to be OP's favoured tactic.

@ASugarr

Just gotten back from a lovely day out. Since it's clear people are once again making personal insults I won't be commenting further and I'll be contacting MumsNet about those making insulting claims to me and others. This page is literally about having a debate however it is clear that many can't keep the discussion civil without making petty jokes or insulting others for their view. Thank you for those who have participated kindly in the discussion from both sides 🤍

You started the thead with a flat out lie and then refused to address that.

Flounce away and get the thread deleted.

I'm starting a database of responses I can copy and paste across for the next disingeneous thread.

We waste way too much time engaging with this type of nonsense.

NotTerfNorCis, there seems to be a chasm between what the Bill actually says and the interpretation of the Bill by some, this is something that happens constantly on all legislation relating to trans issues despite it being pointed out that the interpretation is so unbelievably incorrect and evidence provided to conclusively prove that, still they maintain the dangerous fiction.

AnyOldPrion this is very true. The whole issue of women’s rights was brought to my attention by JKR and threads discussing her crossing over into other boards. It must have been chat or AIBU. I remember being utterly struck by how articulate, reasoned, witty, passionate yet deadly serious the (what I now know as) GC posters were. It showed me very clearly how these posters must surely be worth listening to as opposed to those evading questions, shrieking about mantras and generally acting in an emotionally manipulative DARVO fashion.

Since then I’ve spoken to my local primary school about their website and got it correctly amended (sex not gender where relevant), I’ve also discussed with them the fact that Stonewall resources directly contravene the governments own guidelines around PSHE in schools and received assurance that Stonewall is nowhere near the school’s resources. I’ve emailed my MP enough times that he’s pushed back at Nick Gibb and has offered to speak to me about my concerns about the erosion of women’s rights. I’ve donated to various crowdfunders including the FPFW legal challenge to ONS and I’ve ordered ‘Woman: Adult, human female’ stickers (and actually I was so annoyed by this thread earlier that I stuck one in a loo in a service station today).

If this thread even piques the interest of one more woman who subsequently takes a closer look at what is actually happening then it’s worth it. Thank you op.