Genital Inspections

[ASugarr]

The Florida House passed a bill on April 14, 2021, that would ban trans girls and women from playing on high school and collegiate teams. It would also allow schools to require a genital inspection of student athletes suspected of being trans.
t.co/CMRxJnHgV2

This is child sexual abuse. I hope this never ends up happening in the UK. Trans girls and women deserve to play in women's sports. Trans boys and men deserve to play in men's sports. Period.

And really do you honestly think men would want a woman on their team? They certainly won't have it in the masons.

As long as you don't fuck up the system of birth registration.

Absolutely. It would be terrible if there was a system where ppl were allowed to go back and falsify their birth sex...

However, making TRANSgirls have medical examinations, including having to show their genitals to a stranger just so they can play CONTACT SPORT with the girls is just fine.

Fixed that for you. Although genital checking is not required as already established, simply medical testing.

Although of course if genital examination WAS required, then I don't understand why their parents would be putting them through that knowing that they will be found out. Sounds pretty abusive of the parents to me.

You are 'mythtaken'

Given that kids already have to undergo pretty extensive physical exams to play competative sports, it's difficult to see this bill, as actually written, as particularly bizarre. My son had to give a urine sample to play his chosen sport, which he wasn't happy about at all.

Americans, rather weirdly in my view, consider exams of the genitals to be a normal regular part of children's exams anyway, which many people get for their kids on a yearly basis, and it's hardly reasonable to consider a doctor's exam form of abuse, especially a mainly visual one. There are lots of circumstances where kids have much more invasive exams.

That being said I imagine the real idea would be to discourage people from trying to cheat in this way so no exam would be necessary at all.

@Kendodd

Girls can beat boys at sports. They've done so many times. How come there are no women in the fastest 6,000+ at 100m then?

Because women lose their privilege to participate if they are found with high testosterone levels. www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/54079837.amp

" I'm shocked not more women are concerned about this."

I know, right? Where are all the cries of "safeguarding!" It's pure transphobia. Don't worry though - theirs is a minority extremist view. The reality of trans kids in sports usually looks more like this:

"Some women are stronger. It depends on the testosterone and estrogen levels. The majority. Sure. But not all. "

This is simply factually incorrect. Testosterone is only one aspect of why men have a physiological advantage. No woman, unless they have a serious health problem like specific forms of cancer, has testosterone levels anywhere near the low normal level for men.

Apart from testosterone there are a whole host of skeletal differences, muscle attachment differences, heart size, lung capacity, body fat % and so on. None of which are affected by social transition or hormone treatment.

Then there is all the evidence that demonstrates the consistent differences in performance between men and women, at all levels. The fact that you can find a few examples of extreme outliers doesn't negate the general case. As such, it is unfair and sexist to remove sex categories from sport. Women would face being physically hurt at much higher levels in contact sports, and never being able to qualify for any advancement in levels in any other sport. Essentially women's sport would cease to exist.

[quote Shizuku]" I'm shocked not more women are concerned about this."

I know, right? Where are all the cries of "safeguarding!" It's pure transphobia. Don't worry though - theirs is a minority extremist view. The reality of trans kids in sports usually looks more like this:

[/quote] We’re not concerned about genital inspections because THEY ARE NOT REQUIRED. There are other ways to prove the sex of the athlete, GENITAL INSPECTIONS ARE NOT REQUIRED!!!

MissConductUS Yeah, my first thought was 'that'll probably get struck down in federal courts if it even makes it that far, but it'll score someone election points'.

Reading that it's one of the state representative's comments about genital checks that's caused the outrage, not even in the writing in the bill (and ignoring that scrotal checks are part of boys' sports physicals in many places already), it does feel like a politician putting on an act with little understanding of how things work and outrage largely based on not understanding how things work.

Not all men no. Some women are stronger. It depends on the testosterone and estrogen levels.

It depends on a lot more than that, and in most sports, a woman competing against a man will need to train differently to have a chance and to prevent injuries. It's a greater risk that should be fully consented to. Some of us are happy to take on that risk, but I don't think children particularly should be assumed that they're happy to take it just by choosing to compete in a sport.

You're basically saying children shouldn't be allowed to compete in sports unless they're happy to compete mixed sex.

I consider it sexist to tell some women and men that they can't participate in a sport just because they are transgender, intersex, etc.

Well, in the US, children can be told they can't participate in sports or compete because their grades aren't high enough, they failed one class, or aren't taking enough appropriate academic classes.

Personally, I think it would have been very sexist to have my increased risks based on my sex ignored, no matter what I looked like or how I felt about myself.

Bit of an own goal there.
Yes we're aware doping isn't allowed in sports.
We're also aware men have high testosterone levels which gives them an advantage. It's certainly not the only advantage.
I actually do sport. Not knitting, darts or Lego. We have discrete catagories because sex matters. Thankfully, the men in my female dominated sport respect this.

I think OP is identifying as someone who has read the bill, rather than actually being someone who has read the bill.

Is this a feminist take you believe in ASugarr? That sex segregated sports are anti women and disadvantage females?

I heard a female sports academic on Women's Hour saying women should just try harder. Do you agree that is the message to give to female children, that if they want access to sport they have to compete with males and try harder because the physical reality is irrelevant, girls are just not trying hard enough?

Sport is an exemption in the equality act in the UK already
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/195
195Sport
(1)A person does not contravene this Act, so far as relating to sex, only by doing anything in relation to the participation of another as a competitor in a gender-affected activity.
(2)A person does not contravene section 29, 33, 34 or 35, so far as relating to gender reassignment, only by doing anything in relation to the participation of a transsexual person as a competitor in a gender-affected activity if it is necessary to do so to secure in relation to the activity—
(a)fair competition, or
(b)the safety of competitors.

Do you think the UK Equality Act is wrong and fair competition and safety is better without sex segregation?

So Wimbledon should be mixed sex to be feminist and the female competitors can try harder?

Not to mention the fact that your genitals as a woman are routinely medically examined - every few years for smear tests, multiple times during and after pregnancy. Seriously multiple times during childbirth, often with a whole teams of medics, usually male, actually peering down on them. But nobody worried about that being degrading. And that's before we get to all the men examining our genitals up close during sex or behind a camera or screen isn't it.

I have no issue with medical examination of anyone's genitals by a trained medic with appropriate safe guarding in place (nurse and parent in the room etc) for a valid reason. One of my children has a tight foreskin and that is regularly examined by his urologist. He's not upset by it as he understands that it's for a medical purpose that will benefit him. And yet no one thinks it's outrageous the number of times Jazz Jennings has had her genitals examined, cut, stitched etc in highly invasive non medically necessary procedures

@Shizuku yes, exactly like Jessica Zelinka. Contrast any men's decathlon competitor at the same level, say Kevin Mayer for example.

You mean built like Jessica Zelinka

No, I don't, because Jessica Zelinka is a woman, with a uterus and although she looks to have a narrow pelvis because she is a trained elite athlete, like virtually every other female elite trained female athlete, she is still a woman with a uterus and the internal structures which differentiate women from men.

The fact that you struggle to tell women and male athletes apart and think one photo of one typically elite female athlete, a sprinter at that, overrides scientific evidence is a level of thinking so low, its almost impossible to debate at such a basic level with.

Gosh look though, women can also develop six packs - NEWS FLASH!!! Further news flash!!!! Not all women are built like Jessica Rabbit and prance about in stillettos with painted nails and false eyelashes!!!

@DeepThought42 "The consensus is that, having read the text of the bill, trans athletes wishing to compete in high school and collegiate sport will be required to provide documentary evidence of their biological sex if their eligibility to do so is queried. This evidence will come from their health care professional."

Here's the text of the bill:

"The health care provider may verify the student's biological sex as part of a routine sports physical examination by relying only on one or more of the following: The student's reproductive anatomy; The student's genetic makeup; or The student's normal endogenously produced testosterone levels."

What do you think they mean by "reproductive anatomy"?

@CirclesWithinCircles

You mean built like Jessica Zelinka

No, I don't, because Jessica Zelinka is a woman, with a uterus and although she looks to have a narrow pelvis because she is a trained elite athlete, like virtually every other female elite trained female athlete, she is still a woman with a uterus and the internal structures which differentiate women from men.

The fact that you struggle to tell women and male athletes apart and think one photo of one typically elite female athlete, a sprinter at that, overrides scientific evidence is a level of thinking so low, its almost impossible to debate at such a basic level with.

Gosh look though, women can also develop six packs - NEWS FLASH!!! Further news flash!!!! Not all women are built like Jessica Rabbit and prance about in stillettos with painted nails and false eyelashes!!!

If she has a narrow pelvis, like a man, isn't that an unfair advantage?

I consider it sexist to tell some women and men that they can't participate in a sport just because they are transgender, intersex, etc.
Except literally nobody is doing this as has been pointed out many times.

Oh look here's shizuku to tell us that it's actually all about looks. I find it rather disturbing that you spam every thread with photos of prepubescent children. This has nothing to do with what we are talking about. Why not go back to the many other threads you have popped up on and actually address the issues raised rather than ignoring them and posting the same irrelevant links again and again?

Oh bum, I am having a terrible day with misreading posts.

What I mean to say is that Jessica Zelinka is built as a woman. She doesn't have the advantages that male athletes like Kevin Mayer has. If you look at a picture of her in isolation it may not be obvious, but if you compare with an equivalent male athlete then it becomes immediately apparent what the differences are.

Just checking in to see if @ASugarr has answered my question yet.

No. Not yet. As you were then.

As an aside dont children in the Uk already play in mixed sex teams till they're 13?

Why is the debate about what happens in the Us? Maybe we should debate what happens in North Korea. Or Iran. Or Afghanistan. No?

There's quite a few personally I think we shouldn't be separated for.
Still waiting @asugarr for the list of sports you said should be segregated.

What do you think they mean by "reproductive anatomy"?

What do you think they mean by ''may verify'', or ''relying only on one OR more''?

Because that to me isn't suggesting that anyone will be forced, or required as stated in the OP, to undergo genital inspections at all?