Genital Inspections

[ASugarr]

The Florida House passed a bill on April 14, 2021, that would ban trans girls and women from playing on high school and collegiate teams. It would also allow schools to require a genital inspection of student athletes suspected of being trans.
t.co/CMRxJnHgV2

This is child sexual abuse. I hope this never ends up happening in the UK. Trans girls and women deserve to play in women's sports. Trans boys and men deserve to play in men's sports. Period.

@SapphosRock

Don't know about anyone else but I'm looking forward to beating Harry Kane at football. I didn't realise I just needed to train harder.

Well. Get to it Sapphos!!

Op, now that it's been established in numerous posts that genital inspections will not be necessary, why don't you ask MNHQ to change your ope heading? Otherwise this thread is going to turn into Groundhog day and I'm sure you don't want that?

Why not just say you got it wrong?!

Because then they will be forced to admit they are wrong about the rest of it.

TRA logic: step 1. Never admit you are wrong. Deflect and repeat.

I’m still a little unsure on the practicalities of this. It sounds as though birth certificates world be useless, as there is no guarantee of the accuracy of sex information they contain. So, you would be looking at medical testimony or dna testing. If a dna test is required, I can see this potentially having a prohibitive cost associated of done for all children. Medical testimony would be fine, but would this also incur expense in the US? I’d hate to see people or teams or schools have to pay to play.

I’m not against testing at all, very much in favour, but I’d like to see it implemented in a way that didn’t put some groups of girls at a disadvantage. I’m just thinking out loud, really, not trying to be badger’s avocado.

Of course, one solution would be to prevent the falsification of natal sex on the birth certificates of minors.

@youvegottenminuteslynn

So then trans women taking estrogen should be allowed in women's sports by that logic.

Eh? That doesn't follow by that logic, because oestrogen doesn't undo the physical benefits of male puberty.

However those who have been on puberty blockers and have taken estrogen for a while actually don't have those physical benefits so they are okay to compete.

So you are okay with trans men competing against women? Interesting.

Not if they're on / have been on steroids / hormones no.

However those who have been on puberty blockers and have taken estrogen for a while actually don't have those physical benefits so they are okay to compete.

Incorrect.

Thanks for coming back to me on that. Can I ask something again please?

Do you understand that genital inspections are not required by the bill? That other options are given?

Can you give a straight answer to that question?

That some girls may have won against some boys in some sports is irrelevant. The males still have physiological advantage.
Transmen are problematic and shouldn't play against females because they are doping and gaining advantage with testosterone. Imo they need to decide which is the most important, sport or transition. Or they could start a trans league in their chosen sport

This thread is like Groundhog Day!

Even dr Joanna Harper has moved from their position on the effect of hormones on male bodies

The effect of male puberty cannot be underdone with oestrogen

So now you are saying that only athletes on puberty blockers should compete? Isn't that a bit exclusionary? I don't know OP to me it seems rather immoral to push children into taking medication in order to force them to compete in a category they don't belong in. Why? Just let them compete in the correct category. Also please answer the previous question.

@youvegottenminuteslynn

Thanks for coming back to me on that. Can I ask something again please?

Do you understand that genital inspections are not required by the bill? That other options are given?

Can you give a straight answer to that question?

It suggests it would be an option which isn't acceptable. The bill, which is modeled after an Idaho law that was temporarily struck down by a federal judge last year, allows a school or competitor to lodge a complaint about an athlete competing in a girls’ or woman’s sport. If the party complaining suspects the athlete was not assigned the female gender at birth, the athlete in question will have to prove their birth gender — via a genetic test, a test of their testosterone levels or an examination of their reproductive anatomy by a medical professional — in order to compete.

[quote lonel]@ASugarr You seem to have missed my question:
Earlier you said some sports should be sex segregated - have you changed your mind then?[/quote]
No. Not at all.

However those who have been on puberty blockers and have taken estrogen for a while actually don't have those physical benefits so they are okay to compete.

By your own assertion then, a trans woman who went through male puberty and then took oestrogen does have the physical benefits of puberty? So they wouldn't be "okay to compete"?

Anyway it's great that the world is waking up and seeing sense. Great news about the Florida House. 🤹🤹‍♀️🎊🎇

So which are the sports that SHOULD be sex segregated?

You can think it's because I hate women or something but that would be rather ironic.

I absolutely do think it’s because you hate women. Obviously by women I mean adult human females. And girls. Juvenile human females. Those are the people it seems to me you hate.

Why is that so, ASugarr? Care to shed any light on the origins of this misogynistic world view? Why you think it’s right to prioritise the feelings and wishes of biologically male people over the needs, rights and safety of biologically female people? Why you apparently value male people more highly than female people?

Why you are driven to deny the reality of the physical advantages that male people have over female people when it comes to sport, and the socio-political advantages they have in life in general?

You have consistently misrepresented this bill in this thread and consistently denied the need for most sports to be sex segregated in the interests of fairness and safety.

I am interested in what makes someone so determined to ignore or deny vast swathes of evidence, and material reality itself. Like those people who insist the world is flat. What’s your motivation?

But if there are no differences and males can compete against females , they do as adults, look at weight lifting , mma, cycling, roller Derby then why do the kids need the blockers?

That means there is a difference after puberty? But you are OK witg mixed sex sports after puberty? Then there's no need for thrse drugs on children is there if they should still be able to play on whatever team they like?

I’m sure I keep hearing Sonny & Cher on the radio...

@youvegottenminuteslynn

However those who have been on puberty blockers and have taken estrogen for a while actually don't have those physical benefits so they are okay to compete.

By your own assertion then, a trans woman who went through male puberty and then took oestrogen does have the physical benefits of puberty? So they wouldn't be "okay to compete"?

It depends actually on their transition and the level of testosterone they previously had.

You now say genital inspection is 'an option' and that is unacceptable. In your first post you said:

"It would also allow schools to require a genital inspection of student athletes suspected of being trans."

Require. You said require. You said it was mandated "child sex abuse" because it would be required.

You were wrong. Your own words said genital inspection would be required. That is incorrect. Can you see that now?

So all that testing is OK? The blood tests the monitoring for a set time etc ?

But showing birth certificate isn't?

My goodness you lot are very patient! Op has a history of posting misleading information which they repeat ad nauseum while basically sticking their fingers in their ears and going 'nah nah nah nah nah.'

And any are you suggesting they police the level of transition? That's transphobic? None is required

It suggests it would be an option which isn't acceptable. The bill, which is modeled after an Idaho law that was temporarily struck down by a federal judge last year, allows a school or competitor to lodge a complaint about an athlete competing in a girls’ or woman’s sport. If the party complaining suspects the athlete was not assigned the female gender at birth, the athlete in question will have to prove their birth gender — via a genetic test, a test of their testosterone levels or an examination of their reproductive anatomy by a medical professional — in order to compete.

The wording of the act is such that only one of these options is required by law. The athlete can choose.

If an athlete prefers to have a genital examination over a hormone test who are you to take that option away from them.