Genital Inspections

[ASugarr]

The Florida House passed a bill on April 14, 2021, that would ban trans girls and women from playing on high school and collegiate teams. It would also allow schools to require a genital inspection of student athletes suspected of being trans.
t.co/CMRxJnHgV2

This is child sexual abuse. I hope this never ends up happening in the UK. Trans girls and women deserve to play in women's sports. Trans boys and men deserve to play in men's sports. Period.

My friend is a fully transitioned trans woman of many years and she used to be very into boxing. She won't do it now against women because she said it wouldnt be fair because she retains much pre-transition strength and speed.

Mandatory genital inspections would not be acceptable, however that isn't what is being proposed. The person opposing the bill in that article has twisted what was actually said in order to gain an emotional reaction.

@EmbarrassingAdmissions

able bodied athletes insisted on competing in categories they identified with (and trans abled people do exist)

I remember an interview with an athlete who wryly said that most of the time everyone is minimising their disabilities and getting round them but for the categorisation assessments for the Paralympics, everyone is trying to get into a class by exaggerating the impact of them. It's standard gaming of anything with a threshold - as with weight classes for horse-racing, martial arts, boxing etc.

In the case we're discussing here - you're spot on that this is an attempt to remove thresholds altogether. And it's getting to be the logical outcome of a slew of legislation in various areas related to the general topic.

Paralympic classification: Everyone is cheating system, says former chief executive

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/disability-sport/41851149

No, looking at children's or teens genitals is abominable. A birth certificate should suffice if needs be.

We should be celebrating our differences-not trying to sweep them under the carpet. Everyone is beautiful and deserves to be feted for their sporting prowess.

Given that huge global companies, charities, media, lobby groups, governments, around the world are championing the rights of trans folk I believe an enormous amount of money could be made available to set up new sports boards, acadamies and sporting events. It could be the dawn of a golden age.

Judging by the amount of men who are vocal in their support of TW I wouldn't be surprised if such events would prove to be as popular or even surpass large sporting events like the World Cup etc.

This could be a billion £ industry. All very exciting I think!

@Erkrie

if you are happy for it to be sex segregated and for this to happen then fine. But I would disagree

Super happy for it to be sex segregated. Seems that the powers that be agree with that. Disappointing for you I'm sure. Never mind.

So you are okay with trans men competing against women? Interesting.

There's more than just those instances. There are loads. You can think it's because I hate women or something but that would be rather ironic. I mean if you are happy for it to be sex segregated and for this to happen then fine. But I would disagree.
committedconservative.com/2018/02/25/boy-beats-girl-texas-state-girls-wrestling-championship/

I thought we had already covered the unfairness of performance enhancing drugs.

A birth certificate should suffice if needs be.

It's the OP and sensationalised news stories that are claiming inspections of genital would be necessary. It seems that a doctor's note or cheek swab would be sufficient.

And - oddly enough, depending on the country that you're in, the sex on a birth certificate can be legally changed.

Surely this is an argument for not messing around with sex on birth certificates.

No need to check physically if it's accurate on a piece of paper.

Well no if they've been taking testosterone because that wouldn't be fair would it. If not there's no advantage. But let's not pretend that Trans men are going to make significant inroads into many male sports.

Surely nobody should be able to compete if they are on hormones anyway as it would be doping?

Clearly no child needs to have a medical examination to establish sex - you can do that with a hormone check.

The point of school sport is to keep kids healthy, so schools need to do what they can to make sports safe. If adolescent trans girls are significantly stronger/heavier/have better stamina etc than most girls then clearly it is not fair or safe for them to compete with most girls.

This may well depend on when they have transitioned and what the sport is. Going forward we’ll have enough data to build a framework.

We should always strive for inclusion, but since it is impossible to make life entirely fair for everyone at all times, we have to focus on making it fair for the majority. This applies to adult competitive sport as well as kids sport.

All of this is common sense.

@ASugarr why are you referencing a couple of extreme edge cases where a girl has beaten a boy to try to disprove the general case that men have a physical advantage over women? You can look at the evidence provided on this thread, you can look at the world records in athletics, you can look at the age category records in athletics, same for weight lifting. Even things like ice skating where the best women are just recently trying quadruple spin jumps where they are now expected in the men's competitions.

There is a host of hard evidence to demonstrate that at every level of competition men have an advantage over women. Of course occasionally truly exceptional women can beat mediocre or unlucky men, but that doesn't disprove the general case.

@ASugarr You seem to have missed my question:
Earlier you said some sports should be sex segregated - have you changed your mind then?

Firstly, there are many non-invasive means to determine sex.
Secondly, sex is not the same as gender.
Thirdly, many sports categorize participants by age, weight, and sex for safety reasons. Being asked to prove that you belong to a specific category doesn't seem unreasonable.

@RabbitOfCaerbannog

Well no if they've been taking testosterone because that wouldn't be fair would it. If not there's no advantage. But let's not pretend that Trans men are going to make significant inroads into many male sports.

So then trans women taking estrogen should be allowed in women's sports by that logic.

OP. Do you understand that genital inspections are not required by the bill? That other options are given?

Can you give a straight answer to that question?

I asked this a few times. Utterly disingenuous of OP to not just admit they accepted the comment from the bill's opponent as correct but can now see that it is incorrect. Why not just say you got it wrong?!

So then trans women taking estrogen should be allowed in women's sports by that logic.
What logic? That doesn't follow at all.

"So then trans women taking estrogen should be allowed in women's sports by that logic."

No because oestrogen doesn't confer an athletic/strength/training advantage!

Don't know about anyone else but I'm looking forward to beating Harry Kane at football. I didn't realise I just needed to train harder.

@doublehalo

🥇💡- genius!

So then trans women taking estrogen should be allowed in women's sports by that logic

Trans women benefit from male puberty.
So no.

So then trans women taking estrogen should be allowed in women's sports by that logic.

Eh? That doesn't follow by that logic, because oestrogen doesn't undo the physical benefits of male puberty.

Please ignore my previous post, I misread the original quote....

So you are okay with trans men competing against women? Interesting.

Not the Gotcha you think it is. The transman you linked to above is on steroids and hormones, no? That shouldn’t be allowed in any case.