Genital Inspections

[ASugarr]

The Florida House passed a bill on April 14, 2021, that would ban trans girls and women from playing on high school and collegiate teams. It would also allow schools to require a genital inspection of student athletes suspected of being trans.
t.co/CMRxJnHgV2

This is child sexual abuse. I hope this never ends up happening in the UK. Trans girls and women deserve to play in women's sports. Trans boys and men deserve to play in men's sports. Period.

I’ve just got a Facebook ‘friend’ posting about this right this second - attacking in his words ‘trans haters’ - that GC women are hateful and want to propose child abuse and looking at genitals etc.
He’s gay, but always conflates gay with trans issues and if you don’t agree you’re hateful bigots etc.

I’m too scared to even comment - partly I am not very good at putting things down in writing , like some posters can on here - I’m just a middle aged woman , who cares about women and girls and maintaining sex segregated spaces. I have a DD, age 9, and it’s scary.
(But I will sign petitions, vote for parties who know what a woman is, contribute financially to campaigns, talk to other women one on one etc . )

@youvegottenminuteslynn

OP. Why are you ignoring people who have pointed out the bill does not require genital inspections and in fact gives a list of alternative options?!

You said yourself that the thread was created specifically about the genital inspections being required by the bill.

The bill does not require them, you were incorrect in saying it does.

Why not just admit that?

One of the bill’s opponents, Rep. Omari Hardy (D), said it would subject kids to “genital inspections.”

Op I have read the whole thread and have seen nothing transphobic. No one is saying trans people cannot play sport etc. They are just questioning if it is ‘right’ when it puts others at risk/unfair disadvantage, which is perfectly reasonable and responsible. So holding mumsnet accountable for transphobia isn’t really relevant here is it?

It always astounds me, the lack of empathy for the hundreds of women and girls who have already had their lives irrevocably negatively impacted by just a handful of males competing in their sports. To dismiss these women and girls as irrelevant is common and shocking.

OP why on earth do you think that a biological male should be in women’s sports?
If they were allowed in all contact sports, how would you keep women safe?
If a biological male (who had no previous desire to be female and had not taken any steps in terms of hormones etc to be female) decided one morning that today he was a female and therefore would enrol in the girls soccer or rugby team is that fair and right to the rest of the women’s team?
What if 5 biological males in a friendship group decided to join the team. Is that fair to the 6 biological women on the team?
You seem to be coming at this from a very innocent / naïve perspective.

If you take a look at the resources I gave earlier that isn't always true.

Lol. Smoke and mirrors. I'm glad the Florida House passed this bill protecting the rights of biological girls / women. And it needs rolling out world wide.

That is rape culture. We are all probably aware of how traumatising genital inspections from whoever can be terrifying. That to me isn't acceptable.

In what way is asking an athlete to have a cheek swab test part of rape culture? No genital inspection is required to test the sex of an athlete and constantly repeating a falsehood will not make it true

@ASugarr

There is no genital inspection. Stop spreading fake news and scare stories. You are trying to position gender critical people as child abusers, just stop it.

Here's another article on this:
www.google.com/amp/s/www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2021/04/14/florida-house-passes-bill-banning-transgender-athletes-from-womens-sports/%3foutputType=amp

A quote: Jaime Jara, the mother of Dempsey, a nine-year-old transgender girl, has been following the issue closely. Dempsey, who began her social transition to girlhood when she was five years old, wants to run cross country like her older brother once she gets to middle school. If Governor Ron DeSantis signs HB 1475 into law, she would have to compete on the boys’ team.

In that case, “she just won’t play at all” Jaime Jara, of Kissimmee, said in an interview. “That’s not who she is, so that’s not even an option for her.”

The bill, which is modeled after an Idaho law that was temporarily struck down by a federal judge last year, allows a school or competitor to lodge a complaint about an athlete competing in a girls’ or woman’s sport. If the party complaining suspects the athlete was not assigned the female gender at birth, the athlete in question will have to prove their birth gender — via a genetic test, a test of their testosterone levels or an examination of their reproductive anatomy by a medical professional — in order to compete.

So basically the thing is, if your child was asked to have a genital exam/inspection as they suspected they were transgender or the opposite gender, would you allow that to happen? Would that be okay? Because to me I really wouldn't be okay with that. Regardless if my child was cisgender or transgender.

The OP has been lecturing us for a while about gender identity being something internal and (apparently?) undefinable. And gender being nothing to do with genitals (except on some occasions when being trans means disliking your own genitals - I think, it's not very clear what the OP means at times). So why would the suspicion that my DC was transgender require a genital examination, OP? Surely any confirmation of sex status is for when sex segregation is necessary (for privacy, dignity, safety reasons for eg) and nothing to do with any internally held belief about oneself?

Yes, one of the bill's opponents said that. He is incorrect - the bill does not require that! Have you read the bill? Have you even read the section that shows his assertion is literally wrong?

How can you cite an opponent of a bill as a credible source if their understanding or representation of the bill is proven to be wrong when you look at the contents of the bill itself?

Do you genuinely not see that his assertion is an incorrect reading of the bill? If you care so deeply then surely you've read the bill? Or at least the most relevant section?

[quote Thelnebriati]@ASugarr

There is no genital inspection. Stop spreading fake news and scare stories. You are trying to position gender critical people as child abusers, just stop it.[/quote]
The bill, which is modeled after an Idaho law that was temporarily struck down by a federal judge last year, allows a school or competitor to lodge a complaint about an athlete competing in a girls’ or woman’s sport. If the party complaining suspects the athlete was not assigned the female gender at birth, the athlete in question will have to prove their birth gender — via a genetic test, a test of their testosterone levels or *an examination of their reproductive anatomy by a medical professional — in order to compete.

@porridgecake

I saw this thread, was going to make a comment about cheek swabs, then realised who the OP was and that that the OP has previously stated that they work as an educator in the field of sex education with adolescents and children, therefore must be aware of things like cheek swabs, pre and post puberty strength/size etc.

So I went away and made a cup of tea instead.

Good idea PorridgeCake a much better use of time.

I think in the future we will need laws that compel persons to declare their actual sex in certain circumstances. The decietfulness of some of this movement bothers me greatly. I have ASD and have issues with truth and lies
I think telling children they are the opposite sex is abusive
The situations I'm thinking are school residential settings, carers, HCP when a certain sex is requested, prisons, hospital wards, rape crisis centres

One of the bill’s opponents, Rep. Omari Hardy (D), said it would subject kids to “genital inspections

Oh fgs - he is an opponent of the bill and, as has been pointed out to you several times, is clearly misinterpreting, probably deliberately, to make it look as bad as he possibly can.

So could you actually answer my question then? Do you think my athletic daughter should accept that she:

• is unlikely to win against males but who cares it's only girls who are losing out, right?
• retrain to become a croquest champion?

One of the bill’s opponents, Rep. Omari Hardy (D), said it would subject kids to “genital inspections.”

one of the bill's opponents

I think this is where the OP has made the mistake. Someone who disagrees with the bill has lied about the need for " genital inspection" when the bill doesn't specify this at all.

@porridgecake

I saw this thread, was going to make a comment about cheek swabs, then realised who the OP was and that that the OP has previously stated that they work as an educator in the field of sex education with adolescents and children, therefore must be aware of things like cheek swabs, pre and post puberty strength/size etc.

So I went away and made a cup of tea instead.

That was a good move. I'm off to do the same.

They're not here in good faith and I am loving the irony that that will, inevitably, get most of their threads pulled and they can feel what's its like to have their opinions and actions shutdown and cancelled because not everyone agrees with them.

In your response to @Thelnebriati you've literally quoted the fact that a genital inspection is not mandatory! That a genetic test / testosterone level test are two of the alternative options. I can only assume that considering you've quoted that you're on a wind up, unless you are copying and pasting but not even reading what you're posting yourself? You've just shared the list of options, which shows genital inspection is not required. Can you see that?

just want to say as a woman myself who supports children and has siblings myself that I care for, this does not concern me.

Well good for you. I am also a woman who supports (and has) children. I also have siblings. It does concern me.

He is incorrect - the bill does not require that! Have you read the bill? Have you even read the section that shows his assertion is literally wrong?

Perfect then. I'm sure you'll be relieved to know our daughters won't need a genital inspection op. Just a medical test. Thanks for your concern though, but it's all good.

So we agree that anyone can choose a cheek swab; except we know it is to determine sex, and you claim it determines gender.

Gender is performative. A cheek swab cannot determine gender any more than it can sexual orientation.

In that case, “she just won’t play at all”

How many women and girls will this apply to if they're competing against male bodies? A lot.

Transgender categories for sport, toilets and changing rooms. Third spaces.

Tricking people, trying to force consent that doesn't exist, isn't a way to gain acceptance.

Modelled after an Idaho law? But what does it actually say in this Florida law?
Also you still haven't answered the question as to whether sex segregated categories in sport should be eliminated?

Normal quality of argument from the "trans-rights" side I see.