Genital Inspections

[ASugarr]

The Florida House passed a bill on April 14, 2021, that would ban trans girls and women from playing on high school and collegiate teams. It would also allow schools to require a genital inspection of student athletes suspected of being trans.
t.co/CMRxJnHgV2

This is child sexual abuse. I hope this never ends up happening in the UK. Trans girls and women deserve to play in women's sports. Trans boys and men deserve to play in men's sports. Period.

I'm not alone in thinking genital examinations are not okay just because someone is doing better than others or appear the opposite sex.

Oh well, as a mother I'm happy with it if it stops the risk of harm to my daughter / cheating. It's fine. :-) it would be better if the actions of activitists hadn't forced biological girls into having to do this though. Shameful.

Even in darts none of the top 50 players in the world are female. And there is a separate womens league. ( I play for a team and my height and reach make a difference.)
Also my 16 year old rugby playing daughter would be seriously damaged if she went and played on the boys of her age team. There is 1 lad the same height as her, the others are all bigger. In training her heaviest lift is still a full 30kg below most of the boys. The physical difference is huge

@ASugarr

I'm sorry but that is unacceptable. Not everyone who is transgender has the biological advantage and wants others to know they are transgender. That is why this bill and the idea of separated categories isn't okay.

Not everyone who is not transgender wants to be at risk of physical harm by having to compete against natal males who have the advantage of male puberty. Why do their feelings matter less than the trans woman who wants to join a women's football / rugby team?

Are you actually saying you want trans people to be able to sneak into the opposite sex teams without anyone knowing? That's very dishonest

Well it does read like that doesn't it. Surely not though 🤔

Cheerleading. Dance. Croquet

So op you agree that track and field athletics, rugby, football, martial arts, boxing and swimming do need to be segregated by sex. Good
Glad we haven't quite lost touch with reality.

I get your point ASugarr about it not being personal but your argument is that my daughter going through puberty should be forced to change and compete with male bodies just because they feel feminine on the inside. Without her consent. Shattering her dignity, privacy and safety. And I can tell you quite clearly it would shatter all the above - she
no longer changes in front of her lovely Dad who she knows loves her and definitely poses no threat - because she's shy about her changing body and there's a big difference between me (with all the same bits) and him.

She would be traumatised by a male body in what she thought was a female only space. She'd be upset and hurt by the lying (FFS say it's mixed sex sports / toilets / changing rooms if it is) and she'd feel threatened.

Which is rape culture.

So I find that actually quite personal.

There is nothing in the bill that requires a genital inspection'. It actually states;

12 requiring the school or institution to request a
13 certain health examination and consent form or other
14 statement from the student's health care provider to
15 verify the student's biological sex under certain
16 circumstances;

www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Documents/loaddoc.aspx?FileName=h1475_.docx&DocumentType=Bill&BillNumber=1475&Session=2021

A cheek swab would settle the matter.

@Creepygnochi

Also, drug testing.

In most sports, all the medalists will be drug tested, as well as at least one other random compeitor. You get drug tested by peeing in a cup while a medic watches. My 14yo dd has already peed in front of a grown woman on three separate occassions. There's no getting out of it. Yoy couldn't hide that you were trans even if you wanted to.

I'm surprised this hasn't been responded to by OP. Seems highly relevant to me.

"I'm not alone in thinking genital examinations are not okay just because someone is doing better than others or appear the opposite sex."

You've forgotten that no one is proposing compulsory genital exams, in this bill or elsewhere. I think it's absolutely fine to check that competitors are eligible for their competitive category by asking for proof of sex, age, weight or whatever else is relevant for the sport.

Although if a parent did have a transgirl that wanted to play sport, I would expect them to fess up that they were trans rather than let them go through that process of having to be checked. Why would a parent do that knowing that their child will be found out and thus be unable to play. It serves no purpose whatsoever. Now that would abusive

This is a really good point. What happened to personal responsibility and accountability. Why is it ok to place these children In these positions to avoid being truthful with them but it's everyone else's fault when it back.fires ?

@ASugarr

I'm sorry but that is unacceptable. Not everyone who is transgender has the biological advantage and wants others to know they are transgender. That is why this bill and the idea of separated categories isn't okay.

Ah. This is different. You said you just wanted to talk about genital inspections, so I thought you were claiming that any child being asked to have an inspection would be abusive.

But now it seems that the abuse isn't about the inspection itself, but about anyone having by to prove their birth gender in any way.

I am sorry. It must be really disappointing for trans women who want to play with biological women, but it's just not fair for the women. I know in an ideal world, it wouldn't matter and it would be a level playing field, but it isn't. Sometimes people have medical issues that involve taking medications banned by sports' regulators. They, also, can't compete. There are lots of personal situations that mean people can't compete with the people they would like to - that is exactly why we have a paralympics.

And before you say being transgender is not a medical issue - it is treated like one and medicated, so by choice, it then becomes a medical issue.

I know that's sad, but it is a fact.

ASugar are you denying that when you first came to MN with your demands, sorry requests, that you said you wouldn't harvest screenshots and take them and post them on your Twitter account and then deregistered, did post about it on twitter, with screenshots, and then came back and reregistered with a very similar name as the same person? A name change might help here as people on this board find it hard to take you in good faith for the reasons above. Your sensationalist click bait OP does nothing to dispel that.

@Thelnebriati

There is nothing in the bill that requires a genital inspection'. It actually states;

12 requiring the school or institution to request a
13 certain health examination and consent form or other
14 statement from the student's health care provider to
15 verify the student's biological sex under certain
16 circumstances;

www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Documents/loaddoc.aspx?FileName=h1475_.docx&DocumentType=Bill&BillNumber=1475&Session=2021

A cheek swab would settle the matter.

This. I don't understand why OP feels unable to acknowledge they were wrong about the bill and it does not require genital inspections?

Are you American OP ?
Any person suspected of cheating at sport could be given a blood test if necessary to determine sex, obviously genital inspections are not necessary, that is hyperbole.
Male people do not belong in female sport. I am really sick of young women happily throwing away women’s rights. I have teenage daughters, if they want to play a sport they deserve to do that safely and fairly.
Why are you so keen to trample all over your own sex ?

I honestly think we should all stop engaging with this poster. She is trolling.

OP is not capable of engaging in this issue sensibly or coherently. Especially when she put forward croquet, that well-known Olympic sport, as a mixed sex sport.

This entire thread is just trolling to paint us all as monsters who want to genitally inspect children. We don't. We want fair sports though, and that's what the bill is actually about. No genital inspections are either mandated or necessary - as has repeatedly been pointed out, there are other ways to determine sex.

@Theunamedcat

Surely the original birth certificate is evidence? As its based on observation of genitals?

In the USA trans people are issued with a new birth certificate .

OP you implied in your second post that some sports do need sex segregation. Did you ever answer @AnyOldPrion's original question:

'Which sports do you think SHOULD be sex segregated?'

Be really interested in your answer if you have one.

@IloveJKRowling

I get your point ASugarr about it not being personal but your argument is that my daughter going through puberty should be forced to change and compete with male bodies just because they feel feminine on the inside. Without her consent. Shattering her dignity, privacy and safety. And I can tell you quite clearly it would shatter all the above - she no longer changes in front of her lovely Dad who she knows loves her and definitely poses no threat - because she's shy about her changing body and there's a big difference between me (with all the same bits) and him.

She would be traumatised by a male body in what she thought was a female only space. She'd be upset and hurt by the lying (FFS say it's mixed sex sports / toilets / changing rooms if it is) and she'd feel threatened.

Which is rape culture.

So I find that actually quite personal.

I don't personally agree (especially with the reference to rape culture as trans women/girls are women/girls). I know it isn't an easy subject and it's clear no ones mind would be change online but I just want to say as a woman myself who supports children and has siblings myself that I care for, this does not concern me. The genital inspection does. If anyone ask for my brother or sisters to be given a genital inspection because they don't believe the gender they are I would be mortified. That is rape culture. We are all probably aware of how traumatising genital inspections from whoever can be terrifying. That to me isn't acceptable.

They're not actually asking them to line up on the sports field and pull their pants down before being allowed to play you realise?

I'm sorry but that is unacceptable. Not everyone who is transgender has the biological advantage and wants others to know they are transgender. That is why this bill and the idea of separated categories isn't okay.

In what way is the idea of separated categories not okay ?
Should there be no female sex category in sport?
Should there be no age categories?
Should there be no Paralympian categories?
Should women and girls not be allowed to participate in elite sports?

@ASugarr

I'm sorry but that is unacceptable. Not everyone who is transgender has the biological advantage and wants others to know they are transgender. That is why this bill and the idea of separated categories isn't okay.

Every transwomen and transgirl has the advantage that comes from being male. Of course they may be rubbish at sport just like other men and boys but females are not badly performing males.

If you take a look at the resources I gave earlier that isn't always true.

I saw this thread, was going to make a comment about cheek swabs, then realised who the OP was and that that the OP has previously stated that they work as an educator in the field of sex education with adolescents and children, therefore must be aware of things like cheek swabs, pre and post puberty strength/size etc.

So I went away and made a cup of tea instead.

OP. Why are you ignoring people who have pointed out the bill does not require genital inspections and in fact gives a list of alternative options?!

You said yourself that the thread was created specifically about the genital inspections being required by the bill.

The bill does not require them, you were incorrect in saying it does.

Why not just admit that?

So basically the thing is, if your child was asked to have a genital exam/inspection as they suspected they were transgender or the opposite gender, would you allow that to happen? Would that be okay? Because to me I really wouldn't be okay with that. Regardless if my child was cisgender or transgender.

It would be your right to refuse.

The consequence of your refusal would be that your child would be unable to compete in the female category.

But the reality of this ruling is that it is not a mandatory choice between 1) allowing a medical inspection of genitalia and being allowed to compete and
2) not allowing a medical inspection of genitalia and now being allowed to compete

If you do not wish your child to have an inspection of their primary sex organs, they can instead have one of two other options, which involve either a cheek swab or a blood test.

Obviously various previous posters feel that doctors examining genetalia is not inevitably child abuse and that’s a reasonable point of view, but it’s rather a moot point in this instance.

Do you feel medical examination of children’s genetalia is child abuse in all situations? Do you feel that perhaps all children need to have safeguards in place regarding such examinations, regardless of the reason for it?