Genital Inspections

[ASugarr]

The Florida House passed a bill on April 14, 2021, that would ban trans girls and women from playing on high school and collegiate teams. It would also allow schools to require a genital inspection of student athletes suspected of being trans.
t.co/CMRxJnHgV2

This is child sexual abuse. I hope this never ends up happening in the UK. Trans girls and women deserve to play in women's sports. Trans boys and men deserve to play in men's sports. Period.

@Biscuitsanddoombar

Men & women use different weight bows in archery

The large frame females have the same suggested draw weight as small frame, lighter, men. Unsurprisingly both sex and size matter in that sport.

I don't know much about the US education system, but am I right in thinking that it's very expensive, and for some kids, the only way they can afford it is with a sports scholarship based on how well they play in school sports?

If that's the case, it probably becomes relevant whether a player is trans or not. If biological sex isn't taken into account, then this would surely disadvantage both girls who have been girls since birth and trans boys who were originally girls.

I agree that there's no need for a physical inspection - there must be a more dignified way of proving sex/gender if required, and this should be between the children and their doctor.

@Gobbeldegook

Genital examination isn't necessary. Birth certificate or DNA testing would suffice. I'm pleased they are legislating. I don't want there to be a biological male on my pubescent daughter's football team, sharing her showers, her changing in front of him, him tackling her on the field.

It is child abuse to make young people change infront of the opposite sex.

It is child abuse to allow children to get hurt on the playing field because they are playing contact sports against the opposite sex.

Yes there are times men and women can compete together, equally.

Golf
Snooker
Ping-pong
Darts
Chess
Cards
Horse racing
Etc

But not when a biological male will have an unfair physical advantage over a biological female.
It's cheating and often dangerous to the female.

Football
Rugby
Boxing
MMA
Running
Javelin
Weight lifting
Shotput
Swimming
Rowing
Etc etc etc

The only reason you've posted here is for a fight.

You know this is a huge win for women's rights and your pissed off that your sexist views aren't being accepted.

No doubt your going to call me transphobic. I'm not transphobic.

I'm all for trans people being able to compete competitively, transmen can compete against transmen, transwomen can compete against transwomen.

Just like disabled people compete against disabled people. Because it wouldn't be fair on the disabled person to have an amputee competing with fully able bodied people.
Just like it's not fair on biologically female people to have a biologically male person in the race.

Cis is bollocks.
Stop trying to change my identity to suit yours.

Yet in primary schools in the UK you tend to change infront of others and play PE games with members of the opposite sex.

@334bu

Golf? Surely women can't hit the ball as hard as men ? Could the female no.1 compete with the best men?

They tee off from different spots so it's accounted for

@ASugarr

You've got to be joking. Primary school children are pre-pubescent.

Yet in primary schools in the UK you tend to change infront of others and play PE games with members of the opposite sex.
Pre-puberty there are minimal differences between sexes. Post-puberty there are hige differences. It is weird explaining this to (presumably) another human being! How can you not be aware of this?!

"Think of all the poor girls from disadvantaged backgrounds in the US whose only way to university is through a sports scholarship and the unfairness of their hopes being closed off to them because they no longer have a chance."

Yes this is an excellent point. Yet again, prioritizing the needs of trans above all is a racist and classist viewpoint that will result in reduction of opportunities for many women, for whom sport may be their best shot at going to uni.

I'm not saying that that system is 100% good in itself, and as a non-sporty kid growing up in the US, it didn't affect me. But I know other women, often women of colour or from families who couldn't possibly afford tuition, whose lives were very positively impacted by participation in women's sports in school.

"Genital inspections" are so clearly unnecessary (and, I agree, inappropriate)it is a straw man in this argument.

It is child abuse to make young people change in front of the opposite sex

Yes it's interesting how it's child abuse according to ASugarr if a qualified doctor does a physical exam, but not if unconsenting girls are forced to shower and change with physically bigger bodies and male genitals on display.

Very, very telling that.

Especially since no need for a physical exam due to science and genetic testing.

Also PE games are rather different to competitive sports! If you could get a scholarship for excellence in egg and spoon races, I would have left uni with considerably less debt!

Croquet FFS. I'd like to add that there's no way girls from disadvantaged backgrounds will have the resources to go into equestrian sports--they will be reliant on things like track and field, basketball, etc.

In the US though the majority of those offered sports scholarships will go through a physical exam anyway - in fact even those who are not on sports teams are advised to have an annual physical exam.

It's a normal part of life really over there.

Asuggar

“There's quite a few personally I think we shouldn't be separated for. But regardless, that's not the point of the post. The point is doing genital inspections is child sexual
abuse.”

Then why did you make this point: “Asuggar”?

“Trans girls and women deserve to play in women's sports. Trans boys and men deserve to play in men's sports. Period.”

Also, you do not mention any sports here where girls/women and boys/men should be separated at all not even a few sports where they should be.

Yet in primary schools in the UK you tend to change infront of others and play PE games with members of the opposite sex.

They start changing separately around year 5, when some girls start to show pubertal development.

Trans girls and women deserve to play in women's sports. Trans boys and men deserve to play in men's sports. Period.

No, they don’t. Period. 😂

I think there should be separate categories for males and females. If a physical inspection of genitalia is required then a GP should be able to write a confirmation note. There will always be an occasional case like Casta Semena who is outwardly female genetalia but has internal testis that produce high.levels of testosterone. A better test might be to do a blood test that can measure testosterone in the body.

@lonel

Yet in primary schools in the UK you tend to change infront of others and play PE games with members of the opposite sex. Pre-puberty there are minimal differences between sexes. Post-puberty there are hige differences. It is weird explaining this to (presumably) another human being! How can you not be aware of this?!

I thought the OP was some kind of sexual health worker/teacher too. Scary.

@ASugarr do you honestly not see the difference between pre pubescent primary aged children and pubescent/post puberty ones?
My nieces and nephews are all 7 and under. They think it's funny to show their bottoms/genitals. They get told to pull their pants back up but ultimately no one cares that we saw them.
My DC are teens. It would be very weird if they started shaking their dicks around I'm front of other people.
Likewise my nieces and nephews are allowed on the trampoline together. Because my brother and SIL have decided that it's safe. I won't allow my teens on the trampoline at the same time. Because a teen boy could do a lot of damage to a 3/4/5/6/7 year old.

Good post @I0NA

All it is, is TRAs leaping on 'genital inspections!!' to paint anyone with a gender critical viewpoint to protect women and girls in sport as pervs and child abusers. Fear mongering whippery at it's finest.

As pp have said, just do a cheek swab, or birth certificate, simple.

Also interested in OPs opinion that you need a "history" as living as the opposite sex before going over to play sports as that sex. Isn't that what's currently required for a GRC, that a lot of activists have been criticising as too long, and gatekeeping? The demand is instant allowance into female spaces, sports, groups etc upon self declaration and nothing less will do. And you shouldn't need to be on any medical pathway either.

So OP, I'm afraid that to some people out there, if you think you need some time and/or hormones before you can compete in the sex category of your choice, you're nothing more than a 'cis' gatekeeper, preventing them living their lives, and therefore probably a massive transphobe.

Ah well, never mind eh?

From junior school onwards children change in sex segregated spaces.
From age 11 sport is sex segregated.

Incidentally, a boy at school broke my shoulder playing football when I was 8 years old. He wasn't any bigger than me, but far stronger.
So clearly there's issues there.

And what exactly do you mean by "deserve" to go? There's no deserve about it - everyone can play according to their sex and age categories. No one is left out. Do you think some people "deserve" to compete in different age categories too?

"In the US though the majority of those offered sports scholarships will go through a physical exam anyway - in fact even those who are not on sports teams are advised to have an annual physical exam.

It's a normal part of life really over there."

Yes! This was perfectly true when I was growing up.

How many trans men play American baseball hockey or football with men?

How many trans men compete against men in tennis?

I am asking hoping someone knows more about this.

@lonel

Yet in primary schools in the UK you tend to change infront of others and play PE games with members of the opposite sex. Pre-puberty there are minimal differences between sexes. Post-puberty there are hige differences. It is weird explaining this to (presumably) another human being! How can you not be aware of this?!

Exactly but if we are going to be specific this is aimed at children, meaning at the oldest 16. The article is talking about both pubesent and pre-pubesent children.

In the final two years of my DC primary school they have changed separately and have choice to play in mixed or same sex teams. That's because it's obvious to children that boys and girls are different, some develop earlier than others.

Sex is real: Breasts exist, testosterone changes exist. The emperor with no clothes on could tantrum all he liked, but a child called out the truth.

There are hundreds of women and girls who have been disadvantaged as a result of just a few males competing in their sports. These girls matter, the effect on them matters, the impact on their lives matters.

Btw my daughter competes in athletics. She's fast but not as fast as the boys. She trains really hard though. Do you think she should compete against males or swap to chess or croquet? What would be fair in your opinion?