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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Pregnant people?

999 replies

Trustisamust · 11/04/2021 03:12

So our local NHS Trust have finally updated their guidance re allowing partners to attend pregnancy scans etc.
They now refer to pregnant people, not pregnant women.
I don't know if I am being unreasonable here but this does not sit comfortably with me?

OP posts:
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12
EastWestWhosBest · 11/04/2021 09:01

I just don't think you quite understand that changing some of this language to include all doesn't harm others. It only harms those who are transphobic.

But it does harm people.
As stated already a person with poor literacy skills, limited education, low IQ or low level of English will no know if they have a prostate or a cervix. Those people will be harmed. Those people won’t know that they need to go for screening.

It’s not transphobic to ask for clarity of language.

SaturdayRocks · 11/04/2021 09:01

Other members of the animal kingdom don’t need to transition between male and female, because there are no societal expectations on their sex. So they just are.

ASugarr · 11/04/2021 09:01

@PolarnOPirate

Oh boo, had *@ASugarr* flounced?? I wanted them to shine a light, as an apparent sexual health professional, on why anyone who is a trans man would want to do the most womanly thing possible, one of the things that only biological women can do?
Why is having a baby a womanly thing?
Erkrie · 11/04/2021 09:03

Seeing as it is only females that get pregnant (even that tiny percentage that don't identify as female) it would be more sensible (and considerably less offensive to women) to simply refer to women ( the overwhelming majority) and transmen.

ASugarr · 11/04/2021 09:04

@Erkrie

Seeing as it is only females that get pregnant (even that tiny percentage that don't identify as female) it would be more sensible (and considerably less offensive to women) to simply refer to women ( the overwhelming majority) and transmen.
But if we just used the term 'people' then everyone is included so there are no issues.
PolarnOPirate · 11/04/2021 09:05

@ASugarr You are the second person I have come across this weekend who is representing the pro-trans side of a debate, who has turned off their quote function Confused

‘Why is having a baby a womanly thing?’

Well, because men (people who do not have the necessary baby making and carrying body parts) cannot have babies. And the other type of body which does have those parts, is a woman’s body, a female body. But hey you’re the professional so you already know that.

SaturdayRocks · 11/04/2021 09:05

Why is having a baby a womanly thing?

Can cismen get pregnant?

Biscuitsanddoombar · 11/04/2021 09:05

@EastWestWhosBest

I just don't think you quite understand that changing some of this language to include all doesn't harm others. It only harms those who are transphobic.

But it does harm people.
As stated already a person with poor literacy skills, limited education, low IQ or low level of English will no know if they have a prostate or a cervix. Those people will be harmed. Those people won’t know that they need to go for screening.

It’s not transphobic to ask for clarity of language.

But those people don’t count EastWest! They’ve not got lots of young shiny happy celebrities talking about their exclusion or marginalisation, they haven’t got an expensive training programme to sell you, they haven’t even got a flag for goodness sake

No they’re just boring old everyday marginalised & excluded people

ASugarr · 11/04/2021 09:06

@SaturdayRocks

Why is having a baby a womanly thing?

Can cismen get pregnant?

Cis men can't. But not all women can either. Even cis women. Are they not womanly if they don't or can't?
DaisiesandButtercups · 11/04/2021 09:06

@SapphosRock

I really can't see why women are feeling upset and erased by being referred to as people.

Does the word 'parent' erase mothers and fathers?

Does the word 'partner' erase husbands and wives?

Should lesbians be forced to refer to anonymous sperm donors as their children's father in case it erases fathers?

I don't think forcing people to refer to themselves as women when they don't identify as women is a great solution.

But as you mentioned earlier Sapphos it is quite possible to keep all the generic language in maternity care woman centred whilst respecting the needs of individuals and using language that the individual feels most comfortable with.

The numbers of transmen choosing the most obviously female thing to do across mammalian species- give birth, are tiny. We would never normally change all language across the board for such a small minority especially given the negative impact on the majority. However we should always listen to individuals about what helps them.

It doesn’t matter if it is a rare medical need or a rare cultural need health professionals can respond on a case by case basis.

However as many of us suspect the push to change language across the board is not about making 2 or 3 transmen feel comfortable it is about separating biology from what it means to be a woman.

As I believe that biology is indeed the only thing which places me in the category “woman” naturally I am opposed to any agenda which tells me that if I were really a woman I would go out and buy some make up and high heels to prove it, the trappings of sexist stereotypes in the Western world for approximately the past 100 years. In a different time it might have been a corset and crinoline.

Woman is not a dirty word, it is not an offensive word and the vast majority of those using maternity services continue to be women and to find woman centred care and woman centred language beneficial.

We only just managed to start using the word woman in maternity care after who knows how long of referring to women as “ladies” or “girls”.

The word woman was too vulgar, too earthy, too strong perhaps but we reclaimed and there is once more an agenda to paralyse us when it comes to talking about our bodies and our life stages.

Once the words that describe us and our anatomy become taboo they become shameful.

Men can be proud of being men but what about the other people? Oh they are just the other people. We used to call them, whisper it “women” but then we got woke and realised that that wasn’t the right word for those type of people since it is offensive to those who we now call women.

Eyewhisker · 11/04/2021 09:08

Weird. Just bloody weird. Why are societal stereotypes considered more important than biological fact??? Women have done so much to reduce gender stereotypes so that women can work, have jobs, get educated, wear trousers and not be obliged to dress to make themselves sexually attractive.

Men have not had the same transformation. Men are stuck in a gender stereotype which means that they can’t wear dresses or make-up or act in ways that are ‘unmanly’.

So rather than change the stereotype, those males are non gender-conforming insist that they are actually the opposite gender in the most regressive of ways.

And then, in the ultimate act of male entitlement, insist that women redefine themselves around them.

You could not make it up.

EastWestWhosBest · 11/04/2021 09:08

I can see situations where someone who identifies as a man can become pregnant. I can see that this could be hugely distressing and they would need support or it might be planned. Either way I can see how they would need support that uses words and language that is appropriate. I have no problem with that. I have no problem with there being protocol for this situation.

But I’m sure there are more people who don’t know that have a cervix or prostate than there are pregnant men.

Biscuitsanddoombar · 11/04/2021 09:08

can we not start with the dragging in of infertile women like myself to prop up the utterly ridiculous notion that infertile women are like TW because they can’t get pregnant

I can’t get pregnant becatse my female biology doesn’t function properly not because I’m a fucking man

LockdownLard · 11/04/2021 09:09

Why is having a baby a womanly thing?

This is coming from a SEXual health worker? Wow.

SaturdayRocks · 11/04/2021 09:09

Cis men can't. But not all women can either. Even cis women. Are they not womanly if they don't or can't?

I’ll ask again, since you ignored it:

If you’re a man who doesn’t think you’re a man, so you’ve transitioned to being a woman, what have you transitioned ‘from’ and ‘to’?

EastWestWhosBest · 11/04/2021 09:09

[quote PolarnOPirate]@ASugarr You are the second person I have come across this weekend who is representing the pro-trans side of a debate, who has turned off their quote function Confused

‘Why is having a baby a womanly thing?’

Well, because men (people who do not have the necessary baby making and carrying body parts) cannot have babies. And the other type of body which does have those parts, is a woman’s body, a female body. But hey you’re the professional so you already know that.[/quote]
You can’t quote a post that already contains a quote. They haven’t turned it off.

LostToucan · 11/04/2021 09:09

Why is having a baby a womanly thing?

Because many women don’t see the word “woman” as being only a social category?

User57392985 · 11/04/2021 09:10

@Biscuitsanddoombar

can we not start with the dragging in of infertile women like myself to prop up the utterly ridiculous notion that infertile women are like TW because they can’t get pregnant

I can’t get pregnant becatse my female biology doesn’t function properly not because I’m a fucking man

Yes that was a really fucking low blow. I really hope to avoid @ASugarr if I ever need any of the services she (??) provides.
DaisiesandButtercups · 11/04/2021 09:10

If we cannot say what we are and talk about our bodies in plain English then women’s health care is heading for a new dark age.

PolarnOPirate · 11/04/2021 09:11

@EastWestWhosBest ahhhh that makes sense! Thanks.

Biscuitsanddoombar · 11/04/2021 09:12

Thanks User xxx It’s used very commonly by several posters on here. They’ve been asked not to do it and the fact they don’t says rather a lot.

ASugarr · 11/04/2021 09:12

Well I don't like to think being pregnant as a womanly thing as (since you are all claiming being a woman is a sex term when it isn't) it is insulting to women who can't give birth or get pregnant. That's why we don't use gendered language because it isn't just to help transgender people. Trust me.

But anyway, I'm leaving it there for today. Have a lovely sunday all 🤍

And remember, gender and sex aren't the same thing. Woman is a gender term 🤍

NCfenceisoneofthe99problems · 11/04/2021 09:12

Let’s be clear The word woman has not been removed for the benefit of pregnant trans men, which is a minuscule number (serious question- how many?) it’s for the benefit of trans women, because they are not able to become pregnant so they see the term ‘pregnant woman’ as unnecessarily excluding them. That’s why this language is highly offensive to me, because it means my uniquely female experience cannot be named because that will hurt the feelings of people who it does not concern in the slightest.

KitBiscuit · 11/04/2021 09:13

This is getting absolutely ridiculous now. I feel sick to my stomach when I think about how Pregnant Women will soon be a minority. Don't get me wrong, anyone can be whatever they want to be, but only a woman can get pregnant. If you don't identify as a woman, well...then....

SaturdayRocks · 11/04/2021 09:14

Cis men can't. But not all women can either. Even cis women. Are they not womanly if they don't or can't?

So you’re throwing infertile women under the bus, in your quest to explain why transwomen can’t get pregnant? Just to be clear? Are you?

Transwomen can’t get pregnant because they don’t have women’s bodies.

Infertile women can’t get pregnant because their women’s bodies are doing something quite right.

But you know this already.