Pregnant people?

[Trustisamust]

So our local NHS Trust have finally updated their guidance re allowing partners to attend pregnancy scans etc.
They now refer to pregnant people, not pregnant women.
I don't know if I am being unreasonable here but this does not sit comfortably with me?

@334bu

Use of gender neutral language minimises problems women face inthe public's eye. A report stating 1 in 3 pupils suffer sexual harassment at school dies not have the same impact as 1 in 6 girls are sexually harassed/ assaulted at school. 51% of the population do not figure in this drug's testing is not as stark as no women were considered when testing this drug's safety/ efficacy etc. Erasing women means we don't count.

I personally never said that sexual assault wasn't a primary women's issue and wasn't a feminist issue. I think gender affirming language is necessary when discussing sexual assault.

I'm not saying my opinions are perfect and everyone should agree with me by the way. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but that does also include the opinions of women like myself. Which is why its important that we all voice them.

People are aware they have a prostate or cervix.

I’m not sure about this. People with English as a second language or someone with poor literacy levels/vocabulary/biology knowledge for example might not know those words.

As for medical records- will those say: ‘this patient has a prostate/cervix’ or will they perhaps use the words male/female?

Given that patient leaflets are expected to assume a reading age of 11, I personally think language like "if you have a cervix" is dangerous and exclusionary.

@SaturdayRocks

I don’t understand why transmen are getting pregnant. If you’re so sure you’re a man, why would you want to get pregnant, gestate a baby and give birth?

Men can’t do that.

Psychological dissonance. They all really know who they are and what they're doing.

@waterlego

People are aware they have a prostate or cervix.

I’m not sure about this. People with English as a second language or someone with poor literacy levels/vocabulary/biology knowledge for example might not know those words.

As for medical records- will those say: ‘this patient has a prostate/cervix’ or will they perhaps use the words male/female?

It will be on their medical records if not so a sexual health practitioner can support them.

So there is no feminist issue that solely affects female people.

Got it.

I’ve just looked up in my dictionary (Collins) and it says woman - adult female human being.
Strange.
Gosh - well , there you go.

And no , men cannot be pregnant. Never have and never will.

Let's hope there's a sexual health worker round when theyre sitting at home considering whether to be screened then.

Frances, stating that sort of dictionary definition is rather controversial. Be careful.

People are aware they have a prostate or cervix. Plus their medical records will state that.

www.rcog.org.uk/en/blog/cervical-screening-awareness-week/

Sorry @ASugarr but you’re talking nonsense. Please see the attached link which clearly shows otherwise. As someone who has had to go through invasive and painful treatment to remove precancerous cells from my cervix on several occasions I think it’s pretty bloody important to make it crystal clear that only women get cervical cancer and need to have regular smears.

Incorrect because men can be pregnant as trans men are men. Not every adult human female is a woman. That is a fact.

Until you can provide an alternative definition of 'woman' to 'adult human female' and/or a definition of 'man' that is other than 'adult human male' your sentence is meaningless.

@YessicaHaircut

People are aware they have a prostate or cervix. Plus their medical records will state that.

www.rcog.org.uk/en/blog/cervical-screening-awareness-week/

Sorry @ASugarr but you’re talking nonsense. Please see the attached link which clearly shows otherwise. As someone who has had to go through invasive and painful treatment to remove precancerous cells from my cervix on several occasions I think it’s pretty bloody important to make it crystal clear that only women get cervical cancer and need to have regular smears.

I'm sorry for what you have been through. However cervical cancer isn't just a woman's issue. Transgender men (who are men) can also develop this.

I work in an area in inner London with high percentages of English as an Additional Language as well as low literacy in general. A few weeks ago I spoke to a pregnant woman who did not understand really what her vagina was or how she had become pregnant. She would definitely not see anything directed to ‘people who have a cervix’ and think that applies to her.

The medical importance of reaching the most disadvantaged communities should come before inclusive language. Particularly for smear testing.

A woman is any one who says they're a woman. Dictionary definition is literal violence. Hth.

@Useruseruserusee

I work in an area in inner London with high percentages of English as an Additional Language as well as low literacy in general. A few weeks ago I spoke to a pregnant woman who did not understand really what her vagina was or how she had become pregnant. She would definitely not see anything directed to ‘people who have a cervix’ and think that applies to her.

The medical importance of reaching the most disadvantaged communities should come before inclusive language. Particularly for smear testing.

Understood and that's why many including my self provide free sexual health advice and support to those in need. Especially those who you are talking about.

If transmen are men, how can they get pregnant?

Using their male ovaries and male uteruses (uteteri?)

I'm sorry for what you have been through. However cervical cancer isn't just a woman's issue. Transgender men (who are men) can also develop this.

They can develop cervical cancer precisely because they are not men, however they choose to identify. They are female. Men cannot develop cervical cancer because men do not have a cervix. Why is it so hard for you to acknowledge that inclusive language is potentially extremely harmful to women? Or do you only care if something harms a trans person?

I personally think it makes more sense due to trans men who become pregnant and would like support without being misgendered.

Yes we must pander to all those hundreds of thousands of transmen who are so disgusted with their female bodies they decide to birth a baby 🤨🤨

@YessicaHaircut

I'm sorry for what you have been through. However cervical cancer isn't just a woman's issue. Transgender men (who are men) can also develop this.

They can develop cervical cancer precisely because they are not men, however they choose to identify. They are female. Men cannot develop cervical cancer because men do not have a cervix. Why is it so hard for you to acknowledge that inclusive language is potentially extremely harmful to women? Or do you only care if something harms a trans person?

No they are men.

@YessicaHaircut

I'm sorry for what you have been through. However cervical cancer isn't just a woman's issue. Transgender men (who are men) can also develop this.

They can develop cervical cancer precisely because they are not men, however they choose to identify. They are female. Men cannot develop cervical cancer because men do not have a cervix. Why is it so hard for you to acknowledge that inclusive language is potentially extremely harmful to women? Or do you only care if something harms a trans person?

I just don't think you quite understand that changing some of this language to include all doesn't harm others. It only harms those who are transphobic.

@YessicaHaircut

I'm sorry for what you have been through. However cervical cancer is a woman's issue. Transgender men (who are female) can also develop this but males cannot.

Fixed that for you hon, you're welcome.

I'll leave my opinions as a sexual health professional there for today as I'm not here to try to anger or upset anyone. Just voice my opinions as a woman and as a sexual health worker on why these changes are important and do not erase anyone. We do the same to language around typically men's issues (like prostate cancer and all) but we use gender nutural language there to so we can support women who struggle with those issues. Trans men are men. Trans women are women. Being a man or a woman comes with no rules on what your sex must be and, most importantly, these changes don't change anything for cis people.

My mistake, I attempted to use a logical argument with those who clearly have none. Have a good day.

Who benefits from the erasure of the word 'women'? Do pregnant ftm transitioners benefit from thinking feminism doesn't apply to them? Is it helpful to anyone to remove women from the centre of pregnancy and childbirth, to pretend that such a thing could happen to anyone?

Do women benefit from losing the words to describe their own experiences?

Deep down, does anyone really think that men would view a pregnant ftm transitioner as a man? Really? Do we think that men would genuinely consider a pregnant transman to be any more 'one of us' than they would consider a pregnant woman to be 'one of us'?