Pregnant people?

[Trustisamust]

So our local NHS Trust have finally updated their guidance re allowing partners to attend pregnancy scans etc.
They now refer to pregnant people, not pregnant women.
I don't know if I am being unreasonable here but this does not sit comfortably with me?

Not everyone who gives birth is a mother. Either they could be a surrogate or (like my mother) they lost the right to be a mother.

I know the trend is currently to use the term “surrogate” instead of the term “surrogate mother”, but the latter is correct, as the woman who has given birth to the baby is its birth mother. How people refer to her after she has given birth is their business, but it does not change the fact she is, and always will be, the baby’s birth mother.

Even a woman who has her child removed is still its mother. The child may choose not to refer to her as such, and again, that is their business. But she is, and always will be, the child’s birth mother.

[quote AssassinatedBeauty]@ASugarr what is this "judgement" business suddenly? None of this is about being judgemental. Is calling someone "cisgender" or "transgender" a judgement about them?? [/quote]
According to MumsNet yes.

@ASugarr

You're ignoring legal definitions of words because you are ruled by your feelings based on personal traumas.

That is upsetting but it doesn't mean you get to change the meanings of words as they stand in law.

Call your mother whatever you like ASugarr still doesn't negate the fact that she is your mother, educate yourself on the law surrounding the term.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

You can be a woman and be male

No. Because woman is a separate category to man. A woman is simply an adult human female. A man is an adult human male.

Sorry but I disagree.

Everyone who does give birth is a mother. You can thank Freddy McConnell for getting that established in law.

It was already established in law, and with good reason. McConnell's attempts to overturn it to the potential detriment of all children's interests, not just his own, happily failed.

A mother is the person who gestated, carried and gave birth to a child, irrespective of whether that child was conceived using her own eggs or not. It's fortunate for all children, gamete donors and parents who have used assisted conception that this basic, fundamental and very important distinction has been preserved in law.

Call her what you want asugar. It doesnt mean she isn't legally your mother, no matter what names you want to call her. You clearly have issues in your relationship with her. Which is sad. Maybe you both will be able to resolve that one day.

@RedDogsBeg

Call your mother whatever you like ASugarr still doesn't negate the fact that she is your mother, educate yourself on the law surrounding the term.

No she isn't. At all. And never will be. See, for me all of this transgender stuff and now the mother stuff is about control. It comes across as if you want to control others lives. But at the end of the day you can't. Have your opinion that's fine. But that doesn't change reality for others.

Yes I disagree with you. We all can choose to agree or disagree as we wish. Isn't that good? However apart from people with the legal fiction of a gender recognition certificate, that is the law.

It was already established in law, and with good reason. McConnell's attempts to overturn it to the potential detriment of all children's interests, not just his own, happily failed

Yes true. My wording could have been better.

No she isn't. At all. And never will be. See, for me all of this transgender stuff and now the mother stuff is about control. It comes across as if you want to control others lives. But at the end of the day you can't. Have your opinion that's fine. But that doesn't change reality for others

It doesn't change your legal reality though does it.

Direct quote from ASugarr:

Transgender means you don't alline your gender with the stereotype of your sex

So is this about stereotypes or isn't it?

Have your opinion that's fine. But that doesn't change reality for others.

Sure. And opinions don't change objective reality about sex and reproductive roles.

@ASugarr

It's the law.

Jesus Christ this is like flogging a dead horse. I feel like we're witnessing someone's live streamed therapy session here. It's gone from wacky and funny to sad and uncomfortable now.

No she isn't. At all. And never will be. See, for me all of this transgender stuff and now the mother stuff is about control. It comes across as if you want to control others lives. But at the end of the day you can't. Have your opinion that's fine. But that doesn't change reality for others.

No, it's about Law and definitions and their wider impact on rights, not feelings. The reality is that the term mother is proscribed in Law and has been upheld and that is the reality.

[quote transbadger]@ASugarr

It's the law.

Jesus Christ this is like flogging a dead horse. I feel like we're witnessing someone's live streamed therapy session here. It's gone from wacky and funny to sad and uncomfortable now. [/quote]
It's also by law that trans women are women/female and trans men are men/male. Yet you seemingly ignore that

@EdgeOfACoin

Direct quote from ASugarr:

Transgender means you don't alline your gender with the stereotype of your sex

So is this about stereotypes or isn't it?

The stereotype that man means male and woman means female.

It comes across as if you want to control others lives. But at the end of the day you can't. Have your opinion that's fine. But that doesn't change reality for others.

This is fascinating as that's exactly what the trans lobby are doing. Seeking to control. They can have they're opinions and that's fine. But that doesn't change objective reality for everyone.

🦡🌈🤍

"According to MumsNet yes" - do you mean MNHQ? Or do you mean, according to some people who post on some threads on Mumsnet?

It is factually incorrect to call me cisgender. It is factually incorrect to assume that all people who are not transgender are therefore cisgender.

You can of course keep referring to me and others as cisgender, after you have been told that you are incorrect. I will keep correcting that mistake/deliberate error.

The great thing is, OP, that you can call your mother anything you like. Just like men can call themselves women if they like.

None of that, however, changes reality.

You clearly have a difficult relationship with your mother and I’m surprised you dropped your comment about her into the thread so casually. But acknowledging that in law, she will always be your birth mother, doesn’t in any way prevent you from describing her however you wish.

@ASugarr

It's not that I disagree with the narrative. But surely if cisgender can't be used then transgender shouldn't be used. Especially by those who aren't trans.

I will repeat myself, once again.

We are not asking you to stop calling yourself "cisgender".

We are asking you to treatotherpeople with a modicum of respect and to stop calling them "cisgender" when they have asked you not to.

If you can manage to use preferred pronouns, simply refraining from making sweeping statements about other people's gender identity should not be that hard.

When you persist in doing so, you squander goodwill.

It is equivalent to deliberately using disliked pronouns in order to offend, and I clearly recognise it as what it is. So do other members of this board.

Woman - is an adult human female.
Mother - is the woman who gave birth, or the woman who is mothering.

They aren’t always the same person. There is a difference between simply being a mother because you gave birth and actively mothering.

Most people’s associations with the word mother are around the activity of post-birth mothering. Caring and nurturing. I can understand why given the associations someone would not want to use the term for a woman who had their parental rights removed. Unfortunately it’s still the correct term.

@Erkrie

It was already established in law, and with good reason. McConnell's attempts to overturn it to the potential detriment of all children's interests, not just his own, happily failed

Yes true. My wording could have been better.

But I'm glad to see it was raised. I watched that unfold in horror, wondering what on earth it would mean for children in the event that his request was upheld. And that's not suggesting that every law surrounding gamete donation (now with no rights whatsoever to anonymity) is necessarily ideal.

To pick up on another point upthread about infertility - I agree that it's pretty disgusting to use this as leverage to argue that those in this unenviable position are not fully 'female'.

I'm infertile because I don't ovulate. It took a decade and five miscarriages to have the one child I have. There will be no others. I have a reproductive system that doesn't happen to work as it should. It's still a female reproductive system and I'm still very much a woman. I just happen to be atypical.

And I'm very definitely a mother.

It's also by law that trans women are women/female and trans men are men/male. Yet you seemingly ignore that

It has been explained to you several times by those who know, understand and practice law that you are incorrect and yet you seemingly ignore that.

It's also by law that trans women are women/female and trans men are men/male. Yet you seemingly ignore that

No it is not. Only those with a legal gender recognition certificate involving a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria, and even then there are exemptions to both the GRA and the EA.