Pregnant people?

[Trustisamust]

So our local NHS Trust have finally updated their guidance re allowing partners to attend pregnancy scans etc.
They now refer to pregnant people, not pregnant women.
I don't know if I am being unreasonable here but this does not sit comfortably with me?

'Baby's parent'.

Way to devalue and downplay the physical sacrifice that one parent has played in carrying and birthing the child.

Brave new world.

I hate the phrase 'pregnant people. Unfortunately It seems in in the minority- other pregnant women don't seem to agree with me.

Being a woman isn't identity, only women get pregnant, there is no excuse for vague and unscientific language in essential medical information. Anything else is privileged middle-class navel-gazing designed to show off the high status of not being constrained by real life. It's bizarre, boring and annoying.

@Dunderblue

I personally see no issue. The hospital I had my baby in used this kind of language for everything and even had a video on the TV in the waiting room with a trans man using their services. All the leaflets said pregnant people and they/them rather than she/her for the person carrying the child. It didn't make my care any less but it was nice to imagine a trans person walking in there feeling nervous and seeing they were included in the information available. When my son was born the midwife said she had started to refer to everyone as "babys parent" rather than mum or dad. The kids we're raising are going to be the generations that find this normal, they're gonna be the ones to be more accepting and inclusive. Why not get on board now rather than be another generation that fights against the youngs views? It never works. Progress won't stop to spare our feelings when it's to make a better world for everyone to feel accepted and included..

And this is why dialogue on this forum should never be shut down @ASugarr because you disagree with the narrative.

Here we read a different viewpoint and a refreshing one. Whether or not it tells a viewpoint that appears to threaten a particular narrative, it is an experience that needs to be told.

@EdgeOfACoin

'Baby's parent'.

Way to devalue and downplay the physical sacrifice that one parent has played in carrying and birthing the child.

Brave new world.

It is offensive, my mum raised me alone. My father had absolutely no input bar the conception part. I know plenty of women had the same experience, and many women who go through labour without a male partner have a worse experience. This is a serious problem that needs to be addressed.

Who benefits from the removal of the word woman or mother from pregnancy and birth? That's a question worth asking.

When my son was born the midwife said she had started to refer to everyone as "babys parent" rather than mum or dad.

I find this hard to believe. How do they know which parent they’re talking about?

I find this hard to believe. How do they know which parent they’re talking about?

The attempts in the uk.also to change the word mother on the birth certificate to father based on gender Identity of the "birthing parent " have been unsuccessful.

Which begs the question that given these terms and the definitions are clarified in law, why do people feel the need to change it. If they refused then the law is surely on their side?

Seems nore like it's manipulation of staff than anything else because regardless of what you call the parent the birth certificate will have them documented as mother

HermitsLife
"It is offensive, my mum raised me alone. My father had absolutely no input bar the conception part. I know plenty of women had the same experience, and many women who go through labour without a male partner have a worse experience. This is a serious problem that needs to be addressed.

Who benefits from the removal of the word woman or mother from pregnancy and birth? That's a question worth asking."

Absolutely. If this is what is happening (using the term "baby's parent" rather than "mother", or at least "birthing parent") it is dreadfully offensive, and potentially confusing.

And through the woolly collective thinking that is often caused by language, could lead to further erosions of a mother' rights altogether.

It's not that I disagree with the narrative. But surely if cisgender can't be used then transgender shouldn't be used. Especially by those who aren't trans.

@Dunderblue

I personally see no issue. The hospital I had my baby in used this kind of language for everything and even had a video on the TV in the waiting room with a trans man using their services. All the leaflets said pregnant people and they/them rather than she/her for the person carrying the child. It didn't make my care any less but it was nice to imagine a trans person walking in there feeling nervous and seeing they were included in the information available. When my son was born the midwife said she had started to refer to everyone as "babys parent" rather than mum or dad. The kids we're raising are going to be the generations that find this normal, they're gonna be the ones to be more accepting and inclusive. Why not get on board now rather than be another generation that fights against the youngs views? It never works. Progress won't stop to spare our feelings when it's to make a better world for everyone to feel accepted and included..

Thank you for sharing 🤍

@ASugarr

It's not that I disagree with the narrative. But surely if cisgender can't be used then transgender shouldn't be used. Especially by those who aren't trans.

They're not linguistically or functionally equivalent. That's like saying you shouldn't talk about a transplant because there is no need for the word 'cisport'. The 'trans' in transgender derives from 'transition'. There is no word 'Cis-sition'. 'Cis' is an invalid back construction from the wrong meaning of the prefix 'trans-'.

[quote AssassinatedBeauty]@ASugarr you have very specifically, many times, made your argument using an appeal to authority. First, you referenced yourself as an authority, and then referred to the authority of unnamed "doctors and scientists" and claimed they agreed with you, with no evidence. You are asking people to take what you are stating as truth without any ability to even explain your terms and your meaning.[/quote]
Okay cool. Don't agree with me personally. That's fine. They don't necessarily have to take what I say as truth for themselves, but as truth as to why the NHS have done this and all.

Sorry.., cisplant not cisport. Or transport and cisport.

Good explanation, Errol.

They literally are. Cisgender just means you are not transgender. It means that you relate more to your biological sex and surround any gender (like pronouns, title and more) around your sex. I get that many of you don't identify as cisgender but that's all it means. Transgender means you don't alline your gender with the stereotype of your sex. Meaning you don't use the typical pronouns and all that link with your sex. Gender is fluent and many people don't care what they've got biologically and don't wish to determine who they are around that.

You of course can use "cisgender" to refer to yourself and other people who do identify with the "gender identity" that they feel correlates with their sex.

What you shouldn't be doing is referring to people who have specifically told you they are not "cis" as "cisgender", nor should you be assuming that everyone who isn't transgender has a belief in gender identity and is therefore "cisgender".

For example. I don't have any belief in the concept of gender identity and therefore reject the label you want to place on me. It is, however, a simple fact about me that I am an adult human female, so I am a member of the category of "woman".

@ScrollingLeaves

HermitsLife "It is offensive, my mum raised me alone. My father had absolutely no input bar the conception part. I know plenty of women had the same experience, and many women who go through labour without a male partner have a worse experience. This is a serious problem that needs to be addressed.

Who benefits from the removal of the word woman or mother from pregnancy and birth? That's a question worth asking."

Absolutely. If this is what is happening (using the term "baby's parent" rather than "mother", or at least "birthing parent") it is dreadfully offensive, and potentially confusing.

And through the woolly collective thinking that is often caused by language, could lead to further erosions of a mother' rights altogether.

The only time the title of mother is taken away from any woman who is a parent is when their child disowns them and can (in some cases) legally detatch from them. I do hope that one day trans women can be legally called mothers and trans men be called fathers, however I know that's a very complex thing (just like changing the legal terms of man and woman) so it will take quite a few years to change. But not everyone who gives birth is a mother and not every mother gives birth.

What's a stereotype of being female ? Gender identity isn't defined by stereotypes is it?

How does it feel, having the gender identity of a "woman" ASugarr?

@Whatwouldscullydo

What's a stereotype of being female ? Gender identity isn't defined by stereotypes is it?

No it's not. Many people typically think you have to be feminine to be a woman or be female. Which is incorrect. You can be a woman and be male. You can be a woman and be masculine. There's no rules as to how to be a man or woman.

@Carriemac

Being a woman isn't identity, only women get pregnant, there is no excuse for vague and unscientific language in essential medical information. Anything else is privileged middle-class navel-gazing designed to show off the high status of not being constrained by real life. It's bizarre, boring and annoying.

Yep

For example. I don't have any belief in the concept of gender identity and therefore reject the label you want to place on me. It is, however, a simple fact about me that I am an adult human female, so I am a member of the category of "woman".

This. Gender identity being a thing which is innate and unconnected to sex is an ideology. I am an atheist when it comes to this ideology.

@RabbitOfCaerbannog

How does it feel, having the gender identity of a "woman" ASugarr?

It just feels right! It feels comfortable, it feels homely. I feel myself when someone calls me she/her and calls me a woman. Although I'm certainly not a very feminine woman (I don't wear women's clothes, etc), I feel happy to be labeled as a woman and identified as such.

You can be a woman and be male

No. Because woman is a separate category to man. A woman is simply an adult human female. A man is an adult human male.

Well we know you don't have to ge feminine to be a woman.

So then what is gender identity without resorting to femininity or masculinity?

What are they transitioning too or from ? How do you have a gender expression when.expression.is irrelevant to said gender?