Pregnant people?

[Trustisamust]

So our local NHS Trust have finally updated their guidance re allowing partners to attend pregnancy scans etc.
They now refer to pregnant people, not pregnant women.
I don't know if I am being unreasonable here but this does not sit comfortably with me?

If you are helping to push language ajd onfo changes you seemingly can pass on the relevant info to those people to explain why. So why can't you give us a clue here ?

Why is body shop or boots not violation of privacy too?

Makes no sense

@Whatwouldscullydo

Are you going to answer how we know of we have a gender ID and how we can determine.its a woman.one ?

I mean there are 33 million women and girls in the uk all with different personalities so.what are the common.factors of thise gender ID? Even.nermaids think.there are millions of gender identities.

If no one cares of believes what I have to say then what's the point in answering your questions? No point if I'm just going to be judged and insulted really.

Hopefully MumsNet will ban the use of the word transgender so you all can stop making transphobic and inappropriate threads that lead to no good.

Yeh this isn't going to happen and the very idea is so twisted I don't even no where to begin.

You want to ban the word that denotes a group of people you clearly care passionately about, because some people's views don't align with yours?

How many fingers am I holding up Winston?
Four
And if the party says it is not four, but five- then how many?

Keep mangling language until you get the outcome you want.

🦡🌈🤍

So that's a no.

You cannot tell us what a woman GID is

They say that if you truly understand a subject, you can explain it in a way that a 5-year-old can understand.

If someone can't explain something except by reference to 'this is what the NHS guidelines says', along with a random screenshot, or by repeating catchy phrases, it makes me think that that person doesn't fully understand their own argument.

@Whatwouldscullydo

So that's a no.

You cannot tell us what a woman GID is

I could actually. But I don't wish to considering people have made it clear that they won't listen 🤍

I would ask Mumsnet why they are happy to let someone continually try to sabotage a female space and stop women from having discussions.

Yes, good question.

And asking questions isn't insulting.

Of you'd answer them then they'd not keep asking.

What's the defining trait of a a woman gender ID.

In light of the questionnaire mentioned earlier on by an educator who uses one to help people decide what gender they are, I found a few such questionnaires by googling.

My result -for what it is worth- was too long to screenshot. It ends up a bit like the results of a DNA test. I can’t remember by entire result but it was something like:
29% female
29% binary
14% pan gender
0% male
Last one I can’t remember.

(I am a female woman. Heterosexual. As I child I liked pink and petticoats even though my mother didn’t want me to wear stuff like that. I played with dolls. Later I was good at DIY and digging etc. I have non-submissive personality. Occupations etc I won’t tell here.)

The test just showed I am one among the infinitive variety of female humans. I don’t need the specific labels)

Hopefully MumsNet will ban the use of the word transgender so you all can stop making transphobic and inappropriate threads that lead to no good

Is that what they are campaigning for now?

It would not surprise me.

This is symbolic violence against women.

@EdgeOfACoin

They say that if you truly understand a subject, you can explain it in a way that a 5-year-old can understand.

If someone can't explain something except by reference to 'this is what the NHS guidelines says', along with a random screenshot, or by repeating catchy phrases, it makes me think that that person doesn't fully understand their own argument.

Here's the simplist way; male and female are sex based terms. Man and woman are gender identity terms. Masculine and feminine are gender expression terms. They don't all have to link together. At all. Gonna leave that for you to all complain about and have a conversation with people who actually listen to others.

Yeah it would be useful for you all considering you are arguing with scientists and doctors on this. If you don't agree then cool don't agree, but then don't go complaining about it and insulting people when they try to explain it to you.

Yes... yesterday I watched a twitter conversation unfold with a biologist who stated sex was on a spectrum because the temperature of the sand the turtle eggs dictated the sex of the hatchlings and eels could change sex. ....

When pointed out that the discussion was about humans and sex was immutable, he just got snarky and certainly couldn’t provide evidence to the contrary.

It must be wonderful to think a job title entitles you to other people’s respect.

It must be disappointing to discover that people don’t care and want evidenced discussion instead. And so, so frustrating.

@ASugarr I engaged with you politely, pointing out a basic mistake in your claim to science. You didn't respond. You seem to assume that women here discussing with you are poorly educated and not doctors or scientists. You seem to assume that because you work alongside doctors and scientists, that gives you some authority to make statements and have them accepted as truth without them being analysed for veracity. This is obviously not the case.

But what's man akd what's a woman.gender ID.

Why can't you define the terms .

You realize medical professionals can't tell you everything because of safeguarding and confidentiality? Do you not want people to have that? It is a right for medical services to not give out all this information and is important also that young people have the right to this too
ASugarr

Doctors cannot give you information about individual patients. But it's not confidential to want to know the questions that are asked in tbe questionnaire you say you administer. Nor to want to know how you define 'woman gender identity ' sufficiently robustly to allow a male bodied person into a female only space, something that no other man would be allowed to do.

I conclude the questionnaire doesn't exist and that you cannot defne 'woman gender identity ' in any coherent way that doesn't resort to stereotypes.

I could actually. But I don't wish to considering people have made it clear that they won't listen

As you quite sure that by 'won't listen' you don't actually mean 'read, analyse and are liable to subject to rational criticism'?

@AlwaysTawnyOwl

You realize medical professionals can't tell you everything because of safeguarding and confidentiality? Do you not want people to have that? It is a right for medical services to not give out all this information and is important also that young people have the right to this too ASugarr

Doctors cannot give you information about individual patients. But it's not confidential to want to know the questions that are asked in tbe questionnaire you say you administer. Nor to want to know how you define 'woman gender identity ' sufficiently robustly to allow a male bodied person into a female only space, something that no other man would be allowed to do.

I conclude the questionnaire doesn't exist and that you cannot defne 'woman gender identity ' in any coherent way that doesn't resort to stereotypes.

It is confidential when you aren't under the NHS or are a doctor.

@ErrolTheDragon

I could actually. But I don't wish to considering people have made it clear that they won't listen

As you quite sure that by 'won't listen' you don't actually mean 'read, analyse and are liable to subject to rational criticism'?

What criticism has there actually been other than "I don't agree" or "I don't believe you". Like really? What has anyone actually shown that contradicts the fact man and woman are gender terms and that sex and gender are not the same?

Presumably similar training is given in non medical settings though.

So they'd be some actual defining of terms surely?

I mean we are told no male will.abuse Self ID so that means that this vital info to stop this happening has been given to all sites having undergone training.

So what is this special info?

I mean Presumably you were given it to?

Man and woman are gender identity terms.

Yes, but you can't explain gender identity except in reference to a secret questionnaire.

How can a person determine what gender identity they are without reference to gender stereotypes?

Here's the simplist way; male and female are sex based terms. Man and woman are gender identity terms.

Here's the simple, accurate way, again:
Male and female are sex based terms. Man and woman are species-specific sex based terms.

If you think there needs to be some separate term for 'gender identity terms', distinct from 'Masculine and feminine are gender expression terms.', then surely those are skimpily 'transwoman and transman' for those who have a sense of ' gender identity', and where it is different to their sex.

There's no need to change the meaning of man and woman, which are still required to mean what they always have. Adult human male or female.

Here's the simple, accurate way, again:
Male and female are sex based terms. Man and woman are species-specific sex based terms

Masculine and feminine are the gender terms.

@ErrolTheDragon

Here's the simplist way; male and female are sex based terms. Man and woman are gender identity terms.

Here's the simple, accurate way, again:
Male and female are sex based terms. Man and woman are species-specific sex based terms.

If you think there needs to be some separate term for 'gender identity terms', distinct from 'Masculine and feminine are gender expression terms.', then surely those are skimpily 'transwoman and transman' for those who have a sense of ' gender identity', and where it is different to their sex.

There's no need to change the meaning of man and woman, which are still required to mean what they always have. Adult human male or female.

But that's the thing. It isn't a change in meaning. Man and Woman have always meant gender. They've never been sex terms because the sex terms are female and male. You can think your way, that's fine. But I will continue to think the way I do and the NHS will continue to follow this as it's the way they plan to.

Plus the threads on here aren't about feminist issues

How can we tell what issues are feminist if there's no way of knowing what a woman is?

Man and Woman have always meant gender. They've never been sex terms because the sex terms are female and male.

This really, really isn't true. It just isn't.