Pregnant people?

[Trustisamust]

So our local NHS Trust have finally updated their guidance re allowing partners to attend pregnancy scans etc.
They now refer to pregnant people, not pregnant women.
I don't know if I am being unreasonable here but this does not sit comfortably with me?

I still don't know what my gender is. I still don't know how I can work it out.

I still don't know what questions ASugarr would ask a person to help them figure out their gender identity.

My hypothesis is that ASugarr can't give anyone any guidance on gender identity without reference to gender stereotypes, despite denying that gender identity is dependent on stereotypes.

However, I'm happy to be proved wrong.

Over to you, ASugarr.

@Mugginyouleftrightandcentre

Female at birth.

And what about now? Still female yes?

Biologically yes. Legally no. That's why we tend to say female at birth.

Male.and female are the nouns to denote to the adult human sex. Not man and woman. Man and woman are gender terms.

So my primary age female child is an adult?

Would you give pregnancy care to someone based on legal sex or biological sex ?

Legally?

Define please.

Male.and female are the nouns to denote to the adult human sex. Not man and woman. Man and woman are gender terms.

Oh my god, you can keep on saying this until you are blue in the face but it doesn't make it true.

An adult female horse is called a mare.

An adult female sheep is called a ewe

An adult female human is called a.....?

@EdgeOfACoin

I still don't know what my gender is. I still don't know how I can work it out.

I still don't know what questions ASugarr would ask a person to help them figure out their gender identity.

My hypothesis is that ASugarr can't give anyone any guidance on gender identity without reference to gender stereotypes, despite denying that gender identity is dependent on stereotypes.

However, I'm happy to be proved wrong.

Over to you, ASugarr.

Over the internet it is incredibly difficult to do. But I have helped numerous people with their gender identity in person. We have a set of questions (not gender expression based) and go through the steps from there. But as part of confidentiality I can't discuss the full questionare and process on here. Best thing to do is to always sign post them to a sexual health professional to discuss it in full detail.

@AlwaysTawnyOwl

A woman is an adult human female in law. The endocrine society have just published a report defining clearly what we all already know that changing biological sex is impossible. Some women want to be men and vice versa and they can change their appearance, sometimes including surgery, to create the apoearance of the opposite sex. But they haven't, and cannot, change sex. 'Gender' can only ever be a set of expectations, assumptions, beliefs about how each sex behaves, speaks, dresses. Believing that these are somehow set in stone such that they actually define what being a woman or man is, is a most backward and restrictive idea. Women (and men) today are far freer to be themselves because feminism challenged and overturned these regressive notions.

Legally yes. Trans men are also legally male. Do you agree with that?

Legally yes. Trans men are also legally male. Do you agree with that?

Only if they have a GRC. I believe about 5000 people in the UK of either sex have a GRC.

And even then its not absolute. For example, Freddie McConnell lost their court case to be named as 'father' on the birth certificate of the child Freddie gestated and gave birth to.

Legal.sex is irrelevant in healthcare.

Prostate cancer and endo and pregnancy are biological sex related issues.

Doesn't matter what a piece of paper says.

@Mugginyouleftrightandcentre

Legally yes. Trans men are also legally male. Do you agree with that?

Only if they have a GRC. I believe about 5000 people in the UK of either sex have a GRC.

And even then its not absolute. For example, Freddie McConnell lost their court case to be named as 'father' on the birth certificate of the child Freddie gestated and gave birth to.

Father and Mother are a whole separate argument. So once they have GRC they aren't female anymore? Interesting.

ASugarr still not answered my question. If I am female what species am I?

It's quite alarming seeing a health care professional say that 'woman' is a 'gendered term'. The idea that woman is a 'gender' is something straight out of postmodern feminism/queer theory. I would not expect it to have seeped into the real world to affect health care. Until the early 90s it was accepted that male/female referred to biological sex, man/woman referred to human males and females, and masculine/feminine were the words that referred to gender, the socially constructed stereotypes part. The whole idea that 'woman' itself is a gendered concept comes from Judith Butler, who argues that there is nothing more to being a woman than 'performing' a gendered role. But Judith Butler's theory is anti-reality and quite frankly mad! And because we are talking about very high theory here, proper ivory tower stuff, it doesn't make sense to say it's a 'fact' that woman is a gender. That is something which is deeply contested. Radical feminists think that woman means what it has always mean - it is the noun that refers to human females.

Even if woman is a gender, what does that even mean? If sex and gender are two separate things, why do women get called transphobic for calling trans women male?

@Trustisamust

So our local NHS Trust have finally updated their guidance re allowing partners to attend pregnancy scans etc. They now refer to pregnant people, not pregnant women. I don't know if I am being unreasonable here but this does not sit comfortably with me?

It's more accurate.

So once they have GRC they aren't female anymore? Interesting.

Well, a GRC isn't going to stop a transman from being at risk of cervical cancer or it won't mean that they can stop taking cross sex hormones because they will start producing testosterone themselves.

You said 'trans men are legally men' and I corrected you to say that as a sweeping statement, this isn't true.

@NiceGerbil

A lot of men say 'we're pregnant' these days!

Sorry glib.

I understand that the idea is to cater for non binary female people and trans men.

Pregnant people just feels really... Dunno.

Actually yes I do.

I'm disabled and there was a big thing about putting people first. Rather than focusing on their disability.

So wheelchair users became people who use wheelchairs.

Autistic people became people with autism.

Etc

This was a change to language that was discussed a lot including mainstream media a few years back.

So where's that gone? Shouldn't we are least be people who are pregnant?

Hadn't realised that before just now.

You realize disabled people and autistic people don't actually agree with that language? They don't want to be called 'people with ...' They want to be called disabled people, autistic people. The same applies with trans men and trans women. They want to be known as men and women.

But as part of confidentiality I can't discuss the full questionare and process on here.

Why not? It's not as if there's any individual involved. So not an issue of confidentiality at all. So why not share your processes? Provide a little transparency. Unless of course you're worried it won't stand up to scrutiny. Which of course it won't.

@Mugginyouleftrightandcentre

So once they have GRC they aren't female anymore? Interesting.

Well, a GRC isn't going to stop a transman from being at risk of cervical cancer or it won't mean that they can stop taking cross sex hormones because they will start producing testosterone themselves.

You said 'trans men are legally men' and I corrected you to say that as a sweeping statement, this isn't true.

So you recognize legal status means nothing? They are legally male which is why the NHS and other organizations have made the changes in their language. But well done for realizing men can have a cervix.

Transmen have a cervix. Men do not have a cervix.

@Erkrie

Transmen have a cervix. Men do not have a cervix.

If trans men have a cervix then men have a cervix. Not all men understandably, but men do. Not all women have a cervix.

Don't you think that's dangerous?

I.mean if you start reading test results and applying legal sex you end up I a situation where someone could die. Levels of enzymes or hormones etc in.the blood are different fir the sexs. What's kidney failure for one would be normal for another.

If they list a transman as male and dont do a pregnancy test they could die from a ruptured ectopic that would not be picked up.

The nhs Really should strive for medical accuracy not identity politics

So once they have GRC they aren't female anymore? Interesting.

Yes they are legally male but they are also still female both physically and also legally in certain circumstances. No transmen will ever become a hereditary Duke/ Earl etc. If they have male relatives ( ie. relatives who were born male) they will be passed over for the title. Transwomen with a GRC are legally female but they are still treated as legal males when it comes to an aristocratic title.

If they list a transman as male and dont do a pregnancy test they could die from a ruptured ectopic that would not be picked up.

This has happened.

We have a set of questions (not gender expression based) and go through the steps from there. But as part of confidentiality I can't discuss the full questionare and process on here.

Are you serious? There's a set of top secret questions to help unpick gender identity?

How on earth could such questions be confidential?

I know. As has the mix up with liver /kidney function.

It cost a baby its life and it nearly killed an.adult patient.

Its ridiculous its allowed to happen. Akd it's it's absolute waste of resources to pregnancy test every individual that walks through the doors.