Ireland will no longer be providing single sex toilets in primary and secondary schools!!!

[XXSex]

I am LIVID!!! New technical guidance has been released.
www.education.ie/en/School-Design/Technical-Guidance-Documents/Current-Technical-Guidance/sdg-02-06-sanitary-facilities-april-2021-.pdf

All mixed sex. Hand basin outside the WC (WAH your bloody hands in front of boys). Doors down to the floor (any one else see an issue in a mixed sex school with mixed sex toilets with this set up)

What the were the department thinking?!!!

And a response back from the Minister for Children, Disability and Equality.

Apparently it’s nothing to do with him! It is. And I’ve gone back to him to tell him to do his bloody job. Advocate on behalf of children!

Surely in Ireland Muslims are a much larger minority than trans people? Why have their needs not been considered at all? Sinks in full view mean a Muslim girl cannot do the required washing before prayers, as this involves revealing parts of her body she would normally keep concealed in public. I'd be very interested to hear how this concern could be explained away from a legal point of view by mixed sex provision propagandists.

Islam isn't cool like trans-identification is so clearly it hasn't been given any thought or consideration. I am surprised that there have been no letters to the papers from any representatives of the Muslim faith though.

Yes. I’ve gone back to him on the religion point. Brought up girls again (not that they matter!). Added that the disabled toilets being offered to anyone not wanting to share in the mixed sex toilets is horrendously backwards for disabled children’s rights.

If I get back another “nothing to do with me” from the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth

@3timeslucky

Islam isn't cool like trans-identification is so clearly it hasn't been given any thought or consideration. I am surprised that there have been no letters to the papers from any representatives of the Muslim faith though.

I rang Muslim councillor and after quickly explaining the situation he said he’d call me back. Never did.

@MnaWomanIreland

Yes. I’ve gone back to him on the religion point. Brought up girls again (not that they matter!). Added that the disabled toilets being offered to anyone not wanting to share in the mixed sex toilets is horrendously backwards for disabled children’s rights.

If I get back another “nothing to do with me” from the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth

It's so frustrating that most of our politicians won't touch this issue with a bargepole. It's the the equivalent of them putting fingers in their ears and shouting 'la la la, I can't hear you!'

What will it take for them to acknowledge the problems with all this?

I suspect Muslim representatives are afraid to speak out as they will likely be targeted and attacked along with their places of worship and anyone visibly Muslim.

In the UK it is a clear contradiction of equalities legislation if a protected group's needs are not met and they are negatively and disproportionately affected by a particular policy. But I am not familiar with the legislation in Ireland.

@MnaWomanIreland

I got a response from the department. Apparently there’s no instruction or diktat to install gender neutral toilets.

And more blurb from them about passive supervision. Well it might help bullying but it will increase sexual harassment and assault.

“Diktat”: "an order or decree imposed by someone in power without popular consent". As can be seen here this change in policy is indeed without popular consent.

Thanks for that Mna So if it didn't come from the Dept of Education, where did it come from?,🤔

@MnaWomanIreland

And a response back from the Minister for Children, Disability and Equality.

Apparently it’s nothing to do with him! It is. And I’ve gone back to him to tell him to do his bloody job. Advocate on behalf of children!

No surprise there really Though I am surprised he isn't singing its praises, because he has already said he supports it. Perhaps the negative feedback is actually having an effect.

@fireproofwitch your point above about where this came from is so important... I wish an Irish journalist would do a FOI request to find out the sequence of meetings, when they occurred and who was involved in coming up with and then signing off on this toilets madness. Similarly why is the Omb for Children currently asking Irish children are they a girl, boy, non binary, or prefer not to say in the current survey... Who came up with this idea? Who was consulted? It has me apoplectic with rage, that question.... the way it normalises and gives credence and support to gender ideology.

fireproofwitch the only name that springs to mind is TENI

@ForeverFaithless

fireproofwitch the only name that springs to mind is TENI

It does appear to be the work of some lobby group. TENI or BeLongTo appear to be the most likely candidates.

In terms of Self ID (and I guess the broader implications such as gender neutral toilets), if you look at the Denton's report for the IGLYO (it's available online if you search for it), some of the suggestions of tactics for lobbying government are:

• Target youth politicians
• Get ahead of the Government agenda and the media story
• Tie your campaign to a more popular reform
• Avoid excessive press coverage and exposure

Obviously these are just guidelines, but it mentions Ireland as one of the countries that has been successful in this regard. It shows a very deliberate, covert lobbying of government to get these measures pushed through.

If you think about the abortion referendum and same sex marriage, these were grass roots campaigns that took years to get any traction in political circles. And even then had rigorous public debate before any vote took place. It's very telling that this issue has had none of that, instead it was very deliberately done out of public view. This is because they know well that the voting public would be very against it.

Have anyone done anything further on this?

There was a Parliamentary Question last week by an Independent in Galway, Sean Canney. Well done to the Irish mammy (making an assumption here) who encouraged him! www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2021-04-29/71/#pq_71

I’ve gone to my TD to ask him to ask a PQ question on my behalf.
I’ve written to the Minister and the Secretary General too.

We need to push hard on this. We have to.

TENI's returns on the Lobbying Register, just FYI: www.lobbying.ie/app/home/search?currentPage=0&pageSize=10&queryText=Transgender%20equality%20network&subjectMatters=&subjectMatterAreas=&period=&returnDateFrom=&returnDateTo=&lobbyistId=&dpo=&publicBodys=&jobTitles=&client=&responsible=

Sorry just realised that link didn't work properly. Just put Transgender Equality Network into that search bar.

1561 results! I have nothing to compare it to but that seems huge

We have a similar toilet design in a couple of schools close to us. They are community campus' so house the local swimming pool / public library. Relatively new buildings in the last ten years or so. Honestly the toilets are not a problem according to those with teenage daughters who attend. Yes sinks are open to the corridors but there seems to be a minimum of messing around. All toilets have a sanitary bin, also locally to combat period poverty every toilet has sanitary supplies and wipes in a clear bag with lots of pockets hanging on the back of the door.

I'm very gc but my daughters will go to high school with toilets like these and I won't have an issue with it.

I'm very gc but my daughters will go to high school with toilets like these and I won't have an issue with it.

I would have thought the same as you but when they were installed at my DD's school she stopped drinking water and was doubling up on sanpro. She didn't say anything and I didn't realise for a long time. When I asked why she said they made her feel uncomfortable and the boys were messing around. (She is not GC though!)

[quote PopcornAndWine]TENI's returns on the Lobbying Register, just FYI: www.lobbying.ie/app/home/search?currentPage=0&pageSize=10&queryText=Transgender%20equality%20network&subjectMatters=&subjectMatterAreas=&period=&returnDateFrom=&returnDateTo=&lobbyistId=&dpo=&publicBodys=&jobTitles=&client=&responsible=[/quote]
There’s something off about the search results. Seems to pull in anything that includes network or Ireland. That’s why the number is so high.

If you just put in transgender there were 7 this year and 6 last year.

Interesting results all the same
Sports participation
Model of healthcare (especially in light of the ICGP debacle at the beginning of the year!)

Facebook has 9 and Google 6 last year.

The head of Rape Crisis Network Ireland, Dr Cliona Sadlear has written this excellent article in the Irish Examiner. An intelligent and highly informed woman.

I’ll write to my TD and the Minister for Education on this. Dr Sadlear is correct. This guide is a mistake.

“On their own terms, these recommendations [the new guide] make a lot of sense. But there might be a problem with the terms"

“at no point are the characteristics that might be associated with who gets targeted, where and how, explored or named.
For illustration, one might argue that the single biggest change proposed (there are many) is to move away from single-sex facilities to unisex facilities. Yet at no point is sex itself (or indeed other intersectional characteristics) and the impacts they have on adolescents’ lived experiences, referenced”

“perhaps one of the most compelling reasons girls and women go to the toilet in gangs is not because of what happens inside these places but because of what is happening outside of them.”

www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-40292030.html

Mna thanks for linking to that article.
And very very well said, Dr Saidléar.

"Girls will still go to the toilet in groups because changing the signage won’t have changed their lived reality — that they get to escape for five minutes in the girls’ toilets before they re-enter the fray of a culture that is violently misogynistic; five minutes to armour themselves again to run the gauntlet that is everyday sexism".

Does anyone know if we can complain about the department to anyone? If they haven’t looked at the effect of these toilets on girls or religious groups is there someone we can appeal to - or is the department answerable to no one?

A couple of weeks ago the Ombudsman for Children sent round a questionnaire to Irish children via their schools. The first question was “are you a boy, a girl, or non-binary?”
This was sent to primary schools too. There is no “non-binary” gender in Irish law. This is who the department is answerable to, and he is completely captured.