Ireland will no longer be providing single sex toilets in primary and secondary schools!!!

[XXSex]

I am LIVID!!! New technical guidance has been released.
www.education.ie/en/School-Design/Technical-Guidance-Documents/Current-Technical-Guidance/sdg-02-06-sanitary-facilities-april-2021-.pdf

All mixed sex. Hand basin outside the WC (WAH your bloody hands in front of boys). Doors down to the floor (any one else see an issue in a mixed sex school with mixed sex toilets with this set up)

What the were the department thinking?!!!

At the risk of completely outing myself I'm going to recall a phone conversation I had with my daughters school, in Ireland. It was 5 years ago. She was in 2nd year ( 14 yr olds for non Irish readers) and a boy started who was 16. He was in the year groups core classes Irish English Maths Religion and PE. He started off saying sexual things to the girls, staring at them, commenting on their bodies. The girls went to their year head and complained about him. I and the other girls parents all got a phone call. The school had listened to the girls but the boy had (their words) social problems and had to learn how to be appropriate around girls, they had a duty of care to him. I asked why they were using the girls as unconsenting learning tools and where was their duty of care to girls not to be subject to sexual harassment. There was dithering and muttering and audible disbelief that I pointed out what was happening.
He was moved to another class with a permanent SNA assigned to him.
The girls would use the toilets to get away from him. It fills me with ice to think of what could have happened had the toilets been mixed sex. He was a big lad, tall and broad. The girls wouldn't have stood a chance .

Sorry might be too late to comment on your list - I think that you missed out the risk that it increases the risk that girls might be raped. I really do think its as simple as that.

To me its a simple question - there is (laudbly) increasing talk of the sexual harrassment that girls in school are forced to suffer. Does the HT think that having mixed sex toilets will increase or decrease the incidence of the sexual harrasment of girls?

And - given that the BLEEDINGLY OBVIOUS ANSWER IS INCREASE - why does this not matter.

Just thought of another one. Fire drills. What happens if there’s a fire and a toilet door is locked? Usually (with a gap) you can do a quick sweep to see if there’s someone in there quickly. The toilet locks are also often quick-opening from the outside (though they won’t be in these cases).

@YouWerePrettyIWasLonely - I’m so sorry to hear that. Girls are not boys support humans.

@FFSFFSFFS I’ll add that to it

@Zandathepanda appreciate the input on the health and safety point of view. The toilet doors are designed to hang open if not locked - does that relay your concerns?

Not really. I have done the ‘sweep’ as a teacher on fire drills. Ifs there a locked door I wouldn’t want to leave it. At least with doors with gaps you can see very quickly if there’s anyone there. And if there is drag them out.

I have rescued an unconscious person after seeing a leg poking out of a cubicle and also someone having a fit on the toilet floor. Both incidences stayed in my mind.

The first person I rescued was in a nightclub toilet and my friend climbed over and got her out and got her semi conscious, choking on vomit, before the ambulance arrived.

The Epileptic Society would not like these toilets. Children can go months without having a seizure or one can happen out of the blue for the first time - if children are feeling ill they would go to the toilet. If left too long in a seizure they get irreversible brain damage. 1 in a hundred people have a fit at some time.

On a lighter note, surely the whole pink and blue door thing defeats the object anyway. Pink for girls, blue for boys and what colour for those who don’t want to/feel like they conform? There maybe peer pressure there too in a more public choice way.

@Zandathepanda thanks for coming back. Yes I take your points. The door could be locked because the toilet might be blocked/unusable or because there is a person in it. Without being able to check under the door a teacher couldn’t be sure.

I think I have the fainting/fitting on the list. I’ll update/add if not.

On Joe Duffy now

Boxty - I listened back to that. Very sensible until it descended into screaming by the women calling on. Well done to that Laoise one who kept her cool and got her points across.
What on earth are the department thinking?

Laoise is brilliant, isn't she? Joe got a bit over excited though 😂

I think it was the mentioning of students having sex with each other that was the end of him!

Jesusmaryandjoseph...the very idea 😂😂

Just did a search and it’s been covered by so many journalists today. And it seems that it’s overwhelmingly supportive of maintaining sex segregated spaces and a spar separate mixed sex area.

@MnaWomanIreland

Just did a search and it’s been covered by so many journalists today. And it seems that it’s overwhelmingly supportive of maintaining sex segregated spaces and a spar separate mixed sex area.

That's good to hear. Hopefully things like this will make politicians realise that the vast majority of people do not support this ideology.

twitter.com/VCurrentAffairs/status/1385227345930424327?s=20
Why do a certain side of this debate always resort to name-calling

I see the claim is now being made that the proposals were never to get rid of single sex toilets but to provide gender neutral ones alongside them. Which of course hardly anyone would object to. But the plans shared in the OP certainly look like mixed sex only. What is the truth of this? (See Noah Halpin thread on Twitter this morning)

In the publication there is an alternative which can be considered on a case by case basis and only if the department agrees to it.

It’s basically a walk in between the sinks so dividing it into two rooms. HOWEVER each room has students marked in it and not male female.

@PopcornAndWine

I see the claim is now being made that the proposals were never to get rid of single sex toilets but to provide gender neutral ones alongside them. Which of course hardly anyone would object to. But the plans shared in the OP certainly look like mixed sex only. What is the truth of this? (See Noah Halpin thread on Twitter this morning)

No truth to this. Only mixed sex considered. The only time that female male is mentioned is in the context of changing rooms. And the reference is to the fact that they might be used by the public after school hours.

Just came across a discussion on Twitter, some interesting posts

twitter.com/Colmogorman/status/1385251897871851524

Apparently a survey of 778 LGBT young people in 2019 overrides the fact that 1,000,000 other students weren’t consulted

belongto.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/BeLonG-To-School-Climate-Report-2019.pdf

@MnaWomanIreland that's what I thought. I feel like I'm going crazy! No one seems to be challenging Noah on this falsehood and he has a big following. I can't speak in public about this as I would genuinely fear for my job

@PopcornAndWine the department are back pedalling fast on this. Putting out statements that the school can choose etc. However that’s difficult on practice. Funding for schools is based on following the Guides.

Also the Guide is only mixed sex. Of it was an option then the options should have been indicated to provide clarity.

I would also note that the number of toilets in the current Guide is a ratio of 1:20 students. The previous Technical Guidance was 1:20 and also that the ratio was to assume that the school was made up of 60% female and 60% males. So this new Guide cuts down on the number of toilets as well as removing urinals. Good luck with the queues I say!

Pretty conclusive then?

[quote MnaWomanIreland]Apparently a survey of 778 LGBT young people in 2019 overrides the fact that 1,000,000 other students weren’t consulted

belongto.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/BeLonG-To-School-Climate-Report-2019.pdf[/quote]
Is this the "research" that was used to support this decision?

@fireproofwitch it would have been one of the surveys. I can only hope that it isn’t the only one.