Ireland will no longer be providing single sex toilets in primary and secondary schools!!!

[XXSex]

I am LIVID!!! New technical guidance has been released.
www.education.ie/en/School-Design/Technical-Guidance-Documents/Current-Technical-Guidance/sdg-02-06-sanitary-facilities-april-2021-.pdf

All mixed sex. Hand basin outside the WC (WAH your bloody hands in front of boys). Doors down to the floor (any one else see an issue in a mixed sex school with mixed sex toilets with this set up)

What the were the department thinking?!!!

I've actually checked out a school (North East England) that had this type of toilets in use and it actually DID reduce bullying.

With the sinks being open plan and in plain view of everyone passing by this will eliminate many of the opportunities for harassment and bullying

I see nothing wrong with washing my hands in front of other people

@LurkyMcLurkLurk

Am i looking at the plans incorrectly or is the area in which the sinks are placed completely open to the corridors or whatever communal area is outside?

Yes. Completely open

fuch

But why can't that be done in a.single sex area?

Having rescued 2 people from behind toilet doors having seizures, there’s going to be a lot going on behind the doors people can’t see. There is a gap underneath doors for a reason.

I cannot emphasis enough how this is completely flying under the radar in the wokiest of wokiest of countries on the planet. The real problem here is that really girls and women have a legacy of being treated appallingly in Ireland and it is in the main a structure as held in place by women (if not more so) as men so there are so few voices opposing the changes. I really despair how immature Ireland is. This is like the Celtic Tiger but for fever ideology instead of money.

fever = gender

Here's a couple of (proper) feminist groups in Ireland who might be able to help tackle this BS

thecountessdidntfightforthis.com/about-us/

irishwomenslobby.ie/

The suggested layout has the walls/doors painted blue/pink suggesting to me they assume males and females want to be separated!
The design with the cubicles back-to-back looks the better choice. And with COVID you'd think the ideal would be a one way system.
Unless you think your demographic is going to change I don't understand why they want to get rid of urinals - surely these are better use of space and resources.

@FionaMacCool no consideration has been given for the placement of a dispenser to purchase period products.

I can actually see how being open plan would reduce bullying and other anti social behaviour. But where is the allowance for the extra privacy girls (or indeed boys) may need? If the washbasin area is open plan then any girl washing blood off of her hands or rinsing a moon cup is potentially doing it in front of all other school students. If a girl needs to adjust her hijab she has no privacy to do so. Any child, of either sex, who just wants a cry in private now potentially has more of an audience.

@Zandathepanda

Having rescued 2 people from behind toilet doors having seizures, there’s going to be a lot going on behind the doors people can’t see. There is a gap underneath doors for a reason.

You would find it very difficult to do that with this design. The doors open inwards.

12 years ago when I was buying shower doors I were told that they must open outwards in case someone collapsed inside.

[quote XXSex]@FionaMacCool no consideration has been given for the placement of a dispenser to purchase period products.[/quote]
No, there hasn't- that's because they are considered to be "loose fittings" (see point 34, p12 of the document).
It's interesting that the "mock-up" digrams have no such dispensers.

" To reduce the risk of contact with potentially soiled surfaces and to reduce the risk of viral or bacteriological contamination, the use of electronic activation of taps and WC flush valves should be considered, using systems which are battery independent if possible ".
Interesting that women touching sanitary towel bins, are somehow immune to cross-contamination (sarcasm, for the slow thinking).

WRT door openings, it has long been practice that inward opening doors, have provision for easy opening from outside, in case of emergency. That is included in the design brief.
Though the monthly needs of girls and women hasn't been- interesting isn't it?

@FuchMyLife

I've actually checked out a school (North East England) that had this type of toilets in use and it actually DID reduce bullying.

With the sinks being open plan and in plain view of everyone passing by this will eliminate many of the opportunities for harassment and bullying

I see nothing wrong with washing my hands in front of other people

I have no problem at all washing my hands in front of people.

However, both now, and most especially as a teenage girl, I would have a huge problem identifying my menstrual cycle needs in front of others, and especially in front of my male peers in my mixed school.

Unless you have been a very fortunate girl/woman, you will be very aware of how teenage boys refer to menstruation; the fun they have stick tampons to ceilings, quiet musings at the back of the class as to whether such-and-such a girl is "on the blob". Whether the female teacher who is correcting them, is experiencing PMT etc etc.

I feel so angry! What's the betting the boys end up using one side and the girls the other, probably the one with less cubicles. Besides the lack of dignity and privacy it just seems to be a very inefficient use of space. The girls should all boycott and queue for the unisex unit and be late for classes.

It was my understanding that Muslim males can't share a toilet space like this and vice versa for Muslim women, but I am just going on what I saw on SAS who dares win where the Muslim man had to give up when he just arrived because his religion prevented him from sharing toilets with the females. I'm not Muslim so if someone could set me right it would be appreciated. Also as another poster pointed out adjusting hijabs.

Is this to make the girls be human shields to stop boys bullying each other in the toilets?

This is also asking for an epidemic of constipation as they all hold it in all day. Perhaps also toxic shock as girls might not want to rustle with tampon packaging etc.

This makes me want to waltz into the men's toilets at the Dept of Education, take off my skirt to scrub a menstrual blood stain and rinse out a moon cup as I stand there in my knickers.

Perhaps we need to take care of all of our menstrual needs in full view of the men (gotta be menz, right) who are making these decisions to remove single sex spaces.

Make them feel uncomfortable. Because these toilet arrangements will certainly make our girls uncomfortable.

Peanut as proven by Man Friday, the police would be called immediately. This about oppressing and subordinating female people and their spaces. It's about ownership.

What will happen is what we've predicted from the start: the girls without sufficient privilege to cope will be forced out of the space and lose access to toilets. They won't drink. They'll miss school when they have periods. They'll do whatever is necessary to not have to go into the toilets. They will be in massive majority girls with protected characteristics and vulnerabilities who are more marginalised than the yippee I'm all right Jack I can wash my hands covered in blood and be fiiiiine female people.

It isn't socially just. It's misogynist, it's sexist, it's unkind, it's uncaring, it's insensitive, it's exclusionary, it's discriminatory, it's regressive.

In a few years, people will start going..... hang on a minute, we've got an issue with girls.

But #theyreonlyfemales

Many schools have already done this and it actually has been rather successful. It's meant there are less assults, fights and arguments in bathrooms. Means students are less likely to hide in those bathrooms. And makes it an overall safer space.

@ASugarr

Many schools have already done this and it actually has been rather successful. It's meant there are less assults, fights and arguments in bathrooms. Means students are less likely to hide in those bathrooms. And makes it an overall safer space.

Details please.

Glasgow have been trailing it. Plus schools in england have opened up their bathrooms so one side is males and the other is females, but are within the same room. And so far no issues have come up.

Here's some further information on this:

www.commercialwashroomsltd.co.uk/blog/washroom-design/are-unisex-toilets-legal-in-schools.html

Here's some more information. I personally think it's a wonderful idea. I don't think all toilets in a school should be unisex, but it at least gives young people the choice to if they want to or if they prefer to use their genders bathroom.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-39192130

But why can't it be done as a single sex space?

A more open plan girls toilet and an open plan boys toilet?

And how, when schools clearly have no idea the level of sexual assault that goes on in their premises, can we believe they have an accurate picture of whether bullying etc is really reduced.

Bullies don't just wake up one day and go,.oh I.cant thump someone in the toilet I'll.stop being an.arsehole now. They just take it somewhere else.

And I dont think giving kids the choice is a good idea either.

Sometimes they need protecting from themselves. Adults are supposed to step in and make the decisions fir them until they are old enough and wise enough to make them.

@Whatwouldscullydo

But why can't it be done as a single sex space?

A more open plan girls toilet and an open plan boys toilet?

And how, when schools clearly have no idea the level of sexual assault that goes on in their premises, can we believe they have an accurate picture of whether bullying etc is really reduced.

Bullies don't just wake up one day and go,.oh I.cant thump someone in the toilet I'll.stop being an.arsehole now. They just take it somewhere else.

Actually not a lot of sexual assault happens in bathrooms. It isn't common. Actually is more common in community, public spaces. I think the option in either choosing a single sex/gender bathroom or a unisex bathroom sounds brilliant.