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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Ireland will no longer be providing single sex toilets in primary and secondary schools!!!

441 replies

XXSex · 10/04/2021 09:38

I am LIVID!!! New technical guidance has been released.
www.education.ie/en/School-Design/Technical-Guidance-Documents/Current-Technical-Guidance/sdg-02-06-sanitary-facilities-april-2021-.pdf

All mixed sex. Hand basin outside the WC (WAH your bloody hands in front of boys). Doors down to the floor (any one else see an issue in a mixed sex school with mixed sex toilets with this set up)

What the were the department thinking?!!!

Ireland will no longer be providing single sex toilets in primary and secondary schools!!!
Ireland will no longer be providing single sex toilets in primary and secondary schools!!!
OP posts:
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9
ohnoitsagruffalo · 25/04/2021 23:11

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

fireproofwitch · 26/04/2021 09:34

@Yadidaye

What I can't get my head around is that in this age of the sanctity of lived experience, women and girls who raise their voices are still being told to sit down and be quiet. The number of comments I've read saying 'I'm fine with it' or 'my daughters are grand with this' baffle me. Even if my daughters were fine with it, I have the sense and empathy to understand why some women and girls wouldn't be and I would want to find a way to support them.

The concept of 'communism doesn't know how' makes a lot of sense. It feels as though idealists with no real experience of reality have been put in charge. While their ideals might be noble, they seem to have glossed over the reality of the starting point, like the friend saying how she hopes everyone learns to respect the rules. That presumes that everyone comes from a place where they have the emotional and intellectual security, maturity and desire to do so. The reality is different and boundaries need to be in place to protect everyone.

I think that the people who make the comments saying that their daughter/son is fine with mixed sex toilets are the, ones that annoy me the most too. The implication being that those children who feel uncomfortable are making a fuss about nothing. There is definitely an air of superiority in those comments, which they perceive as showing how progressive and open minded they are. While they cheer on policies which will negatively impact a huge amount of women and girls.
LucysSkyDiamonds · 26/04/2021 15:27

Apologies if I've missed this being posted, but the CSO released figures today showing "One-fifth of sexual violence cases reported in 2019 involved both a victim and suspected offender aged under 18"

www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/victims-and-offenders-in-20-of-sexual-violence-cases-aged-under-18-figures-1117702.html.

ohnoitsagruffalo · 26/04/2021 21:42

Oh my goodness I don't know why my post was deleted!

ohnoitsagruffalo · 26/04/2021 21:44

@LucysSkyDiamonds 20%!! Thats huge. I've turned on Joe Duffy a couple of times in the last few days in the hopes they would discuss it again but nothing! The media really don't give this stuff enough attention

Apileofballyhoo · 27/04/2021 07:43

I overheard two women in one of my local shops discussing this yesterday. They were not impressed. In their late 60s/70s I'd say. "Can you imagine a young girl having to go to the toilet with a fella next to her? What girl would be happy with that?" And so on. It was nice to hear it anyway.

IrishSchools · 27/04/2021 07:57

Does anyone have information on schools that turned back from mixed toilets to single sex? Please post. It’s needed for evidence gathering for the department of education. They are willing to listen!

purplepizzabunny · 27/04/2021 10:22

thecountess.ie/mixed-sex-toilets-template-letters/

The Countess group has some good template letters for anyone who wishes to express concerns.

Womansisterdaughtermother · 27/04/2021 15:53

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/gender-neutral-toilets-in-schools-1.4547026

A couple more letters published yesterday

saltedcaramelchocolate · 27/04/2021 18:00

@Womansisterdaughtermother

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/gender-neutral-toilets-in-schools-1.4547026

A couple more letters published yesterday

This really is an unpopular move, isn't it?
ohnoitsagruffalo · 02/05/2021 10:03

We are in the process of deciding which primary to send my eldest to. I was speaking to a principal of one of the schools last week and asked her what her opinion was on the mixed toilets issue "that I had heard mention of in the media". She said since she their school had recently refurbished the bathrooms, which are at opposite ends of the school, with blue for the boys and pink for the girls, she wouldn't be considering it any time soon! She said the children appreciated having their own spaces too. I was heartened to hear this even though normally I don't like the whole blue for boys pink for girls Grin

toffeebutterpopcorn · 02/05/2021 10:26

I wonder if they had a poll - absolutely anonymous - and asked the boys and girls if they could choose, would they want single sex or mixed sex loos.

I suspect single sex would be the majority.

saltedcaramelchocolate · 02/05/2021 13:22

I think an anonymous poll would be very revealing and probably not what the government wants to see.
It would be interesting to see if Roderic wants to actually replace single sex toilets with gender neutral or would he support them as a third space. That article is behind a pay wall but it appears that he is fully behind gender neutral from what I have read there.

IrishSchools · 02/05/2021 13:59

Share token in the thread here. Comments under it are brilliant

saltedcaramelchocolate · 02/05/2021 16:25

Thanks for the links. The comments are great. This government appears to forget that the last election showed both FF and FG have being losing popularity and there is a strong possibility neither of them will be in power after the next election. Perhaps they should start looking at the things people really care about.

thepiratequeen · 02/05/2021 18:44

A few years ago Irish universities were teaching consent classes. The aim was to teach men that when women say no to having boundaries crossed, when they say no to a situation that makes them feel uncomfortable, when they say no to having their privacy and dignity compromised, that they must be listened to and have their voices respected.

As women, we try and teach our daughters that in Ireland of 2021 the opinions of women matter.

It appears that the government disagrees.
Women saying "no" is transphobic, hateful, hysterical etc etc.
Stand aside women and know your place.

MnaWomanIreland · 03/05/2021 11:34

More letters today! I find a stark contrast between the letter telling girls to get over their embarrassment of periods versus the other two about sexual assault.

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/uni-sex-toilets-in-schools-1.4553580?mode=amp

3timeslucky · 03/05/2021 12:38

Much easier to be preachy about how women should feel than it is to address the realities of sexual assault and sense of threat.

Neither has any bearing on women's rights to just say "No thanks. We don't want mixed sex toilets and we shouldn't have to justify that with stories of managing periods, awkward adolescence and sexual harassment and assault".

Iootraw1 · 03/05/2021 15:25

Worst time I had in a public toilets once was having to remove my blood stained white trousers and then take them to the sink to wash and then dry them under hand dryer. I had no other clothing so had to do this as I had a huge obvious blood stain at back of my trousers the size of a cup saucer. So embarrassing as it was with women wandering in and out standing there in my knickers but would have been impossible for me if a unisex toilet. I would have feared being assaulted by a man standing there half exposed. I just don’t know what I would have done - walk around with blood on view all day being laughed at 🤷‍♀️

Zandathepanda · 03/05/2021 19:43

My worse time in a public toilet was wondering if the young woman we were trying to get to was alive or not. Her foot was sticking out of the bottom gap (which is the reason to have a door gap). Of course in unisex toilets we wouldn’t have seen her because the toilet door would go right down to the floor to make sure men didn’t film women in the loos.

ohnoitsagruffalo · 03/05/2021 21:10

The toilets in a certain restaurant/bar in Dublin are unisex (or at least they were when I was last there yeeears ago). I was with my friend and she got such a fright as a man tried to force his way into the cubicle she was in. I remember he stuck his foot in between the door and the wall so she couldn't shut it. He was drunk and probably just "messing" but still it could obviously go the other way. It was so loud as well that I didn't work out what was happening straight away. So fecking dangerous

MnaWomanIreland · 05/05/2021 09:17

I got a response from the department. Apparently there’s no instruction or diktat to install gender neutral toilets. Hmm

And more blurb from them about passive supervision. Well it might help bullying but it will increase sexual harassment and assault.

“Diktat”: "an order or decree imposed by someone in power without popular consent". As can be seen here this change in policy is indeed without popular consent.