NeoPronouns / nounself pronouns?!!

[Waitingfor12th]

I read this article and really tried to keep an open mind, but towards the end my brain was fried!! Has anyone got their head around neopronouns? Or even heard of this? I admit I hadn't.

A 13 year old is quoted as saying their chosen pronouns are bink/bonk. Other popular ones include bun / bunself and kitten / kittenself. Apparently the responsibility is on the other person to look up the person's "Carrd" (a one page website describing their pronoun preferences) before addressing them, so that there is no excuse for the person being addressed incorrectly.

Some young people are literally using an emoji instead of a pronoun! Such as "where is 🐾" / "what does 🐾 say?". It reminds me of when Prince changed his name to a symbol. I was 15 when that happened and thought it was silly.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/08/style/neopronouns-nonbinary-explainer.html?referringSource=articleShare

I don't give a shit if someone thinks I'm a bigot for boy indulging their nonsense.

that is perfectly okay with me.

How do you pronounce the set of paw prints 🐾 then neroforte?

Fun and silliness for kids but honestly ridiculous in the grown up world.

well, personally i think it depends on whether you are doing it out of spite/unwillingness to change, or if you simply forget. i do think it's bigoted to refuse to use someone's correct pronouns, however i don't see what calling you one would achieve.
if being called a bigot makes you uncomfortable, can you see how you refusing to use someone's correct pronouns would make them uncomfortable too?

Well, we talk about leading authentic lives, people wanting to be true to themselves etc. Many people are being authentic when they don't want to participate in a lie. How would you reconcile their "truth" to call a spade a spade to someone who insists that they are something different?

Why not simply choose one set of (gender)-neutral pronouns and use them universally - something like Marge Piercy’s “person/per/pers/perself” (but ideally shorter)? Other languages manage it. Same thing for Miss/Mr/Mrs/Ms.

Advantages: Offers a solution that benefits society, rather than a million conflicting individual solutions. Cuts down on triggering sex or gender dysphoria or confusion. Eliminates the risk/fear of using the “wrong” pronoun accidentally, and neutralises the effects of anyone who might be using pronouns or titles maliciously. Eliminates the need for the awkward, appropriative, and frequently untranslatable singular “they”. Avoids disadvantaging (e.g.) autistic people, children, the elderly, and non-fluent speakers of English. Helps women, who are often disadvantaged when attention is called to their sex. Makes life easier for translators and language students. Saves time. Doesn’t require internet access or reference notes to have a conversation.

Because then nobody would be special.

I doubt that I will be required to declare my pronouns to anyone or for anything but if I were to be asked would the pronouns 'thiswoman' and 'thatwoman' work linguistically and grammatically?
(Still not going to do it though ; it's ridiculous .)

Why not simply choose one set of (gender)-neutral pronouns and use them universally - something like Marge Piercy’s “person/per/pers/perself” (but ideally shorter)? Other languages manage it. Same thing for Miss/Mr/Mrs/Ms.

Absolutely up for this.

I asked someone on here to use that exact set (it was one of my favourite books as a teenager) last week for me and my offspring, but they refused to oblige.

@PotholeHellhole

Why not simply choose one set of (gender)-neutral pronouns and use them universally - something like Marge Piercy’s “person/per/pers/perself” (but ideally shorter)? Other languages manage it. Same thing for Miss/Mr/Mrs/Ms.

Absolutely up for this.

I asked someone on here to use that exact set (it was one of my favourite books as a teenager) last week for me and my offspring, but they refused to oblige.

Why does it matter so much to you? Baffling...

Wouldn't sticking to good old fashioned he/she be simple. It all feels like that old film War Games, when the ending was 'the only way to win the game is not to play'.
There are no winners with all this pronoun nonsense.

GreyhoundG1rl If I answer that, the thread will get deleted for being a thread about a thread, or discussing behaviour on other threads.

So I'll simply have to link and you can decide for yourself. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4204312-I-had-the-most-awful-row-with-my-teenagers-yesterday?pg=36

I'm sorry this is going to be a bit tangential as it's not really related to the gender identity inspired neopronouns, or to feminism, but it is about neopronouns and language change.

The only neopronoun I've heard in real life conversational use is 'man'. Used quite frequently by teenagers, 'man' is quite an adaptable personal pronouns: it can be a first or third person singular pronoun, and possibly also as a second person pronoun. I'm not sure if it's ever used as a plural pronoun. I think it can refer to male or female people but not inanimate objects and probably not animals. I suspect it's probably used more often for males due to the influence of the noun 'man'. It seems most often used as a subject pronoun, but I think also as an object pronoun. I might have heard 'mans' as a possessive, but I don't think I've heard 'manself' or any form of reflexive: I think where a reflexive is called for, speakers might revert to traditional pronouns.

I'm sure some linguist/sociolinguists must have investigated this usage in more detail, and if anyone knows more about it I'd be interested to learn.

@PigeonPants

Why not simply choose one set of (gender)-neutral pronouns and use them universally - something like Marge Piercy’s “person/per/pers/perself” (but ideally shorter)? Other languages manage it. Same thing for Miss/Mr/Mrs/Ms.

Advantages: Offers a solution that benefits society, rather than a million conflicting individual solutions. Cuts down on triggering sex or gender dysphoria or confusion. Eliminates the risk/fear of using the “wrong” pronoun accidentally, and neutralises the effects of anyone who might be using pronouns or titles maliciously. Eliminates the need for the awkward, appropriative, and frequently untranslatable singular “they”. Avoids disadvantaging (e.g.) autistic people, children, the elderly, and non-fluent speakers of English. Helps women, who are often disadvantaged when attention is called to their sex. Makes life easier for translators and language students. Saves time. Doesn’t require internet access or reference notes to have a conversation.

Or we could just continue using sex based pronouns.

Easy.

The children of Nathan Barley.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

that is perfectly okay with me.

How do you pronounce the set of paw prints 🐾 then neroforte?

those are used online. they will have different pronouns in real life that yh likely won't be aware of until you met them in real life.

^those are used online. they will have different pronouns in real life that yh likely won't be aware of until you met them in real life.^
Do you not realise how absurd that sounds?

On Wednesday my pronouns are pink/pinkself.

On Wednesday my pronouns are pink/pinkself.

good for you

The children of Nathan Barley.

Hahaha yes!

those are used online. they will have different pronouns in real life that yh likely won't be aware of until you met them in real life.

That's good, because I won't be using them unless they are he or she.

See also Raymond Luxury Yacht.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

those are used online. they will have different pronouns in real life that yh likely won't be aware of until you met them in real life.

That's good, because I won't be using them unless they are he or she.

good for you

That's right

I had to look that up, Delirium!

https://montypython.fandom.com/wiki/RaymondLuxury-Yachtt_Interview

Stop trying to make neopronouns happen.

It's not going to happen.

@hallouminatus

I'm sorry this is going to be a bit tangential as it's not really related to the gender identity inspired neopronouns, or to feminism, but it is about neopronouns and language change.

The only neopronoun I've heard in real life conversational use is 'man'. Used quite frequently by teenagers, 'man' is quite an adaptable personal pronouns: it can be a first or third person singular pronoun, and possibly also as a second person pronoun. I'm not sure if it's ever used as a plural pronoun. I think it can refer to male or female people but not inanimate objects and probably not animals. I suspect it's probably used more often for males due to the influence of the noun 'man'. It seems most often used as a subject pronoun, but I think also as an object pronoun. I might have heard 'mans' as a possessive, but I don't think I've heard 'manself' or any form of reflexive: I think where a reflexive is called for, speakers might revert to traditional pronouns.

I'm sure some linguist/sociolinguists must have investigated this usage in more detail, and if anyone knows more about it I'd be interested to learn.

This is interesting, hallouminatus. Could you give an example of how it is used as a first or second person pronoun? (As I am NOT a linguist and am easily confused, and have not heard it used in this way in English.)

It intrigues me because "man" is the word for "the royal we / one" or the general "you" in Danish.
Eg. "You can't use the toilets at school; they are always out of order" would be something like:
"Man kan ikke bruge toiletterne i skolen; de er altid ude af drift."

For some reason I always forget that the possessive form is not "mans" but "ens."
Eg. "One should wash ones hands" = "Man bør vaske ens hænder."

(Apologies to any Danes for my terrible grammar! And I hope this doesn't de-rail the thread. )