NeoPronouns / nounself pronouns?!!

[Waitingfor12th]

I read this article and really tried to keep an open mind, but towards the end my brain was fried!! Has anyone got their head around neopronouns? Or even heard of this? I admit I hadn't.

A 13 year old is quoted as saying their chosen pronouns are bink/bonk. Other popular ones include bun / bunself and kitten / kittenself. Apparently the responsibility is on the other person to look up the person's "Carrd" (a one page website describing their pronoun preferences) before addressing them, so that there is no excuse for the person being addressed incorrectly.

Some young people are literally using an emoji instead of a pronoun! Such as "where is 🐾" / "what does 🐾 say?". It reminds me of when Prince changed his name to a symbol. I was 15 when that happened and thought it was silly.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/08/style/neopronouns-nonbinary-explainer.html?referringSource=articleShare

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

i'd rather just take on board that they use different pronouns and use them

why?

imagine being so privileged that you have to set up elaborate traps for people so you can take offence if they inadvertently refer to you as 'she' instead of 'bink'?

why would I ever indulge such a person?

almost all people in real life, who use pronouns different to their sex, do not take delight in catching people out for using the wrong ones. yes, people on twitter/tiktok might, i've seen it myself, and yes i do roll my eyes. however in real life, they will usually just politely correct/inform you, and in some cases (both of my trans classmates (different schools)), they will stay quiet, and it is only their friends who will correct you. and most of the time, you catch on before then anyway (this happened at my previous school), when people are using certain pronouns/name for that person.

I use female pronouns for females and male pronouns for males

I'm afraid that no amount of correcting will persuade me otherwise!

there are very good reasons to accurately describe the world around you

and the chances of me looking up someone's pronouns and referring to them as 'bink' are zero (unless they were for example my boss at work, or someone in a similar position of power. which tells you a little something doesn't it?)

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

I use female pronouns for females and male pronouns for males

I'm afraid that no amount of correcting will persuade me otherwise!

there are very good reasons to accurately describe the world around you

and the chances of me looking up someone's pronouns and referring to them as 'bink' are zero (unless they were for example my boss at work, or someone in a similar position of power. which tells you a little something doesn't it?)

that's your choice then

English has three grammatical genders - masculine, feminine and neuter.

If I see more of this rubbish, I'll be using the neuter third person singular pronouns when speaking of any individual, without exception.

It's gender-free.

I have to say that the times I met a person who dictated their pronouns (or felt the need to 'correct' me) I reverted to they/them and now just avoid them. It tells me they are too high maintenance and life is too short to tiptoe around people like that.
It also tells me they will be too difficult and opinionated to work with, no compromise will be possible. Maybe young people should have a think how their actions will be reflected upon in the real world...

Just comes across as being the new 'Scene/Myspace' names. (E.g Danni Danger, xXHoLLyHauNtEDxX, Brad Ballistic...)

Fun when you are 14-19, I guess...

I was a bit too old for the Scene stuff

ThatsShitTryHarder, I love that! Thanks for giving me a laugh this morning. Agree entirely.

Yes exactly. It's surely unworkable?! I mean, Prince was a prime example. Everyone called him "the artist formerly known as..." which is ridiculous.

Except that was too much of a mouthful so everyone ended up calling him Tafkap instead, which probably wasn't how he saw this playing out.

Soontobe60

Tell me the last time you had a conversation with someone and used pronouns other than ‘you’.
Hi Sam, do you want to get a coffee?
Hi they, do they want to get a coffee?

See? We just don’t use pronouns in the way people think. We use them when referring to someone. Then the person being referred to is not usually present.

Bit of a tangent, but I observe a lot of refer/address confusion around neopronouns. People who consider themselves as pro-neo-pronoun often post thing like 'well, why wouldn't you want to address people the way they prefer?' and it grates on me. You don't address people with third-person pronouns! You address people with their names, title, or second-person pronouns!

I would address the Queen as "your Majesty".
I would refer to her using third-person pronouns and "her Majesty", as appropriate.

Maybe this confusion is because English doesn't have two forms of second-person pronoun, as other European languages do.

Necessary, I hadn't seen that so thank you.

Neoforte, it's very well saying that's fine, it's your choice to not use people's preferred pronouns but it's made very difficult, isn't it? If I didn't use the preferred pronoun, I could be made to feel very uncomfortable, be called a bigot, face disciplinary action if it was in a professional setting or could be even accused of hate crime.

@YouNoob

Necessary, I hadn't seen that so thank you.

Neoforte, it's very well saying that's fine, it's your choice to not use people's preferred pronouns but it's made very difficult, isn't it? If I didn't use the preferred pronoun, I could be made to feel very uncomfortable, be called a bigot, face disciplinary action if it was in a professional setting or could be even accused of hate crime.

i don't know. i just personally can't see why you would purposely go out of your way to not use someone's preferred pronouns if you're aware of them, however i won't try to change your mind if you're certain you won't be doing that, so it's your choice entirely, however there may be consequences to that (not that i agree that not using someone's preferred pronouns is a hate crime!).

Neroforte. There shouldn't be any consequences for not using the correct pronouns though, should there? That's the point I'm trying to get at.

@YouNoob

Neroforte. There shouldn't be any consequences for not using the correct pronouns though, should there? That's the point I'm trying to get at.

well, personally i think it depends on whether you are doing it out of spite/unwillingness to change, or if you simply forget. i do think it's bigoted to refuse to use someone's correct pronouns, however i don't see what calling you one would achieve. if being called a bigot makes you uncomfortable, can you see how you refusing to use someone's correct pronouns would make them uncomfortable too?

I'm wondering when this obsessive need to keep everyone comfortable at all times came about.
I've made to feel uncomfortable many times in my life, for all sorts of reasons. I've not gone into conniptions about it.

@Juicyoranges

I'm wondering when this obsessive need to keep everyone comfortable at all times came about. I've made to feel uncomfortable many times in my life, for all sorts of reasons. I've not gone into conniptions about it.

Yes, but it's not everybody, is it? Those with grave reservations about the whole thing are told not be be bigots; their comfort is irrelevant.

Yes, exactly

@Juicyoranges

I'm wondering when this obsessive need to keep everyone comfortable at all times came about. I've made to feel uncomfortable many times in my life, for all sorts of reasons. I've not gone into conniptions about it.

Thinking about this the other day, I thought of some of the attachment parenting gurus.

They all seem utterly convinced that feeling bad, being upset, stress, are very bad for you, and that children and infants should never have experiences like this if you can help it.

I am thinking it was late 80s early 90s that all this took off with parenting.

I am thinking it was late 80s early 90s that all this took off with parenting.

Téa Smith on Twitter reckons the root of all this can be precisely pinpointed to the invention of baby wipe warmers.

(And apparently that's not just a joke, these actually exist. I am so out of touch.)

Bink/bonk??

'Cause I'm gonna make you see
There's nobody else here, no one like me
I'm special
So special
I gotta have some of your attention, give it to me

i do think it's bigoted to refuse to use someone's correct pronouns

can you actually hear yourself? Do you understand the definition of 'bigot'?

that's quite aside from the discussion of what is 'correct' on the pronoun front

Yes. Isn't having a name special enough?
Perhaps children ought to be numbered at birth, and then pick out a name when they come of age.

If someone's name was Bink or Bonk I'd call them that. Especially if binked called binkself that upon reaching 18

Bink'd. Best get the punctuation right.

If it helps end any pressure or requirement to declare personal pronouns, then so much the better.