Anyone fancy co-parenting with LOJ?

[AdHominemNonSequitur]

Owen Jones wants a baby, and would like a lesbian couple to impregnate. Any takers on mumsnet? He could be quite a catch for someone looking for a sperm donor and a co-parent to raise a well balanced child.
He got a bit of flack, so is doubling down on the the "anti-trans cult" and calling everyone homophobic.

Edgeofacoin
I totally agree. Everything about woman is appropriated. Fertility struggles equated as the same and being able to get pregnant, c*s privilege... ffs.

It's just, whatever THEY say must be evil and so let's find any old argument to say why, even if it directly contradicts what we said last week.

A post from BuntingEllacott last week was very illuminating - this is about creating a group and 'othering' anyone who is not in it. To paraphrase (and hope I've not messed it up): The language, buzzwords, mantras, flags, symbols, etc are all identifiers. They don't actually mean much or have to be true, they just have to be displayed so that members of the group can tell who is 'one of them' and who is 'one of us'. It's about displaying allegiance and affirming the group.

So OJ can tell us we are transphobes one week for wanting to observe the word 'lesbian' to mean 'woman', and then use the word 'lesbian' to mean what he wants the next week but he retains, in his mind, the right side of history at all times, because he knows he is on the right side.

I suppose it's the same as Damian Barr making a horrible joke about a transwoman's failed suicide attempt. He gets a pass and remains on the right side of history because he's in the right group. No matter what Damian Barr says he will never be described as a transphobe because he knows to chant the right slogans and show public contrition as penance, etc.

JKRowling makes a mild joke about the word 'woman' and has her books burned. Effigies of women are hung in Spain, and everybody shrugs. Graffitti on a wall in Spain and someone comes on a UK feminist board to berate us for it, somehow.

Probably purely coincidental that most of the ones on the 'right side' are males.

(FWIW of course there isn't a 'right side' of history. History isn't a binary, it's not even a fucking spectrum, it's a big old uneven mess that changes as we even look at it from different angles. Simplistic nonsense like this is what gets us into these messes )

However, I strongly dislike how some trans activists seem to appropriate the struggles of infertile women for their own ends

.....along with the struggles of other groups too........everything is appropriated.

I strongly dislike how OJ seems to equate mtf transitioners with infertile women

That was simply his fall back excuse having been found out. He's not really thinking for himself...he's relying entirely on 'party' one-liners; as do all gender ideologues.

“he still thinks he’s the cleverest boy in 6th form”.

I doubt he ever was.

strongly dislike how OJ seems to equate mtf transitioners with infertile women

That was simply his fall back excuse having been found out. He's not really thinking for himself...he's relying entirely on 'party' one-liners; as do all gender ideologues.

It's really nasty and offensive.

@SapphosRock

As a married lesbian with two kids conceived by sperm donation I can give a bit of insight into why OJ May struggle to find a lesbian couple to co-parent with.

1. Lesbian couples have access to sperm banks full of donations from handsome, intelligent Vikings

1. Lesbian couples who conceive via sperm donation are both legally able to be on a child's birth certificate as parents. A co-parenting agreement with a gay man would mean the lesbian partner who doesn't carry the baby would have no legal parental rights.

1. Owen Jones is a twit.

Brilliant.

"transwomen can’t have babies just like infertile women can’t have babies.”

OK. But what about transmen? Transmen can have babies?

Shizuku

Hopefully womb transplants for trans women will be a thing soon, cos it'll be so much fun watching bigots imploding when a trans woman offers to be a surrogate for a gay couple.

Actually, that might be a hoot. As long as they could get all the shit that comes with having a female reproductive system. The blood, the cramps, the cancers, prolapses, endo, miscarriages, the birth injuries...I could go on.

Arabella, yes, I think you're onto something there. The analogy that always comes to mind for me is that if you are accepted as an artist, e.g. by going to art school, or falling in with the right group, or being famous and fashionable, you can present anything you like as art and others will take it seriously. If I tried to do it, I'd be laughed out of the room.

I think the appropriation of infertile/menopausal women as an 'gotcha' as to why men are actually women is absolutely vile to be honest. Since when has OJ ever cared about infertile women before? As usual, they only matter when they benefit him.

It's a bit like when he accused JKR of 'painting herself as a martyr' when she talked about her experiences of abuse.... Until the next day when The Sun printed that awful front page, and then all of a sudden he was all over it as it was a golden opportunity for him to virtue signal about how awful The Sun is. He had made it clear the previous day that he didn't give a fuck about JKR's abuse.

Women can be useful in certain situations to benefit men, but at all other times they are just faceless entities, whose thoughts, feelings and desires should be immediately dismissed. Extra points if you can keep them quiet by calling them bigots. That is honestly how it feels.

I completely agree, Muggin. It is vile, and people who do it are misogynists.

As an infertile woman I am beyond fucked off with the faux “zomg you’re implying infertile women aren’t women!!” from misogynistic shits like OJ

OJ couldn’t give the tiniest fuck about infertility, he just weaponises it because he can’t bear ever to admit that he might be in the wrong on anything

Women can be useful in certain situations to benefit men, but at all other times they are just faceless entities, whose thoughts, feelings and desires should be immediately dismissed. Extra points if you can keep them quiet by calling them bigots. That is honestly how it feels.

Oh, for sure. We're only seen through a lens of usefulness.

SapphosRock
they're not so tiny Gibbons - my kids are made of strong Viking stock. Won't be long before they tower over me and DW
adjusts mental image!

The tribes/flags thing is very interesting as an explanation of why some (I was going to say people but it’s men isn’t it, women’s positions always seem to be precarious) men seem to have a “get out of jail card”. OTOH it takes me back again to the ‘is it more likely that a whole lot of left wing women have suddenly become bigots or that maybe they have real concerns’ thing - the flags/tribes showed no protective power there.

I see Boodleoops was singled out by OJ at one point and now I can't find her on Twitter. Does anyone know what happened and, more importantly, if she's ok?

It does look like he's on a wind up mission, sad bastard. He needs to get a life.

Hopefully womb transplants for trans women will be a thing soon, cos it'll be so much fun watching bigots imploding when a trans woman offers to be a surrogate for a gay couple

Between this sort of breathtaking admission and OJ's unfiltered hypocrisy, I see many more people are having a penny in the air moment.

I’ve seen OJ as an Agent Provocateur ever since he was photographed with the woman in the offensive TShirt, just before the election - just in time to discredit his party to any wavering voters.
He appears to speak up in support, yet he actually damages his cause.

Like this time. There was no need to grab the attention away from the actual couple who were celebrating (however you may feel about their reason), but just look who got himself top trending and spraying offensive comments around for all to see. He’s done them no favours, has he?

Hmm. That's interesting Tanith. I'd always taken it for granted that the only people who were aware of the t-shirt (whatever they thought of it!) were left-leaning voters who were going to vote Labour anyway.

I'm not sure why, but I did.

He’s done them no favours, has he?

None. Genuinely.

Neither does his 'it's just because you all hate me' response to any disagreement.

OJ is the epitome of the sacred caste within a sacred caste. People are hooked in on the premise that everyone is pulling together for the common good and that everyone is an equal, one big family of everyone having the same special status. But dare to question the actions of one of the really special ones, and you are out on your ear. We've seen this with Sarah Paulson this week refusing to use pronouns. She got a special special pass for that, and the poor bugger who pulled her up on it, who no doubt thought they were just enforcing the clear pronoun rules of the happy family of equals, got piled on.

The high profiles with the largest reach and the biggest reputations for being god like in their goodness will get the most protection. Mostly, because they are the palatable face of the operation to outsiders. The special special would never associate with anyone who told women to die in a grease fire, so that simply could not have happened.

I'd really recommend watching Leah Remini's series, Scientology and the Aftermath. She describes her own parting with Scientology, which resulted from her calling out the hypocrisy of the way the organisation treated a certain very high profile member - as if their rigid rules didn't apply to him, the rules she always tried to adhere to and enforce. But it was a step too far for her to criticise this person. Leah herself realised she was special, but not that special. The organisation tried to force her to recant, she would not, so she was out.

( Actually, LH's series about the whole way that organisation operates, from institutional capture, to attack mode lawsuits designed to intimidate law enforcement as well as critics, to stalking and persecution of detractors and labelling them as SPs, to separating children from their families, to forcing people to give up their outside friends and families, to taking advantage of charitable status, all to protect an organisation with a tiny worldwide membership, and the fear they have managed to instil in non members in doing so, is a real lightbulb experience.)

The whole 'they disagree with me so they must HATE me' thing is so fucking juvenile isn't it?

I mean, what adult actually operates in that way?

@Mugginyouleftrightandcentre

The whole 'they disagree with me so they must HATE me' thing is so fucking juvenile isn't it?

I mean, what adult actually operates in that way?

It seems to be quite widespread, these days.

We witness the 'you don't agree with my ideology therefore you are denying my humanity and erasing my actual existence' quite often, on here.

Disagreement as violence.

Odd position.

SpaceBat
I’ve seen that series. It is fascinating and I agree there are similarities with belonging or not, which is why some describe the trans movement as a “type of religion”. I’ve also seen the movie “Going Clear: Scientology and the prison of belief”.