Anyone fancy co-parenting with LOJ?

[AdHominemNonSequitur]

Owen Jones wants a baby, and would like a lesbian couple to impregnate. Any takers on mumsnet? He could be quite a catch for someone looking for a sperm donor and a co-parent to raise a well balanced child.
He got a bit of flack, so is doubling down on the the "anti-trans cult" and calling everyone homophobic.

The bloke who tweeted it follows Titania McGrath (and Jordan Peterson) so I wouldn’t take it at face value myself.

Fair enough. It's a bit sad that it's almost impossible to tell these days, so we have to check the person's credentials to make sure they are actually joking and not actually a MRA...

@littlbrowndog

Access to birthing people. Like we are cattle

Fairly certain from that person's other tweets and who he follows (e.g Private Eye, Jordan Peterson, Titania McGrath, Andrew Doyle, Fraser Nelson, Andrew Neil, Charlie Hebdo , Ricky Gervais and Jeremy Clarkson) that it's a parody/sarcasm.

If womb transplants into males became possible, OJ and co wouldn't need transwomen - they could gestate for themselves.

A pp clearly enjoys telling women we're about to become obsolete, because tw will jump at the chance to provide womb services for gay men.

But as lesbian posters have made clear, women actually have our own agendas. The idea that women gain worth from serving men is the most male fantasy of femaleness ever.

I miss being able to tell the difference between satire and people's sincerely held opinions.

@PotholeHellhole

I miss being able to tell the difference between satire and people's sincerely held opinions.

Yeah i miss it too

If A Handmaid's Tale was released today, I'd have to email the author to work out whether to shelve it in speculative fiction or erotic fantasy.

Re the hunting thing, I've always felt pretty safe around gay men. It's very disturbing to think of them hunting me for my reproductive capabilities.

It's a bit sad that it's almost impossible to tell these days, so we have to check the person's credentials to make sure they are actually joking and not actually a MRA...

True, but let’s not forget that the responsibility for that lies entirely with those who genuinely have made such outrageous statements and fostered such a misogynistic climate that it is hard to tell what is satire and what is not.

I’m sure we’ve all seen plentiful examples of this, god knows the internet is liberally strewn with them.

I decided to read the medium piece

'This was the late 1990s, when the British Social Attitudes Survey revealed far more people believed homosexuality to be “always wrong” than “not wrong at all” and when several anti-gay laws remained in place: Section 28 (which meant no education about LGBT issues at school, apart from a sex education teacher who warned of the dangers of anal sex), no equal age of consent, no civil partnerships, to right to adopt, and a lack of protection from discrimination. Cultural representation of LGBTQ people was very limited, often reducing gay men to one dimensional clowns or as tragic figures with doomed lives'

Queer as folk - 1999
Trade opened 1990 (I ended up there once by accident had a great night!)
I was in university in Manchester 1994. Yes it was (is?) second to Brighton as big gay scene but still- loads of bars clubs. I used to go to one called paradise.
Plenty of out gay men and lesbians.
Gay couple on EastEnders being beamed into the nation's living rooms
Guessing there were a fair few out pop stars, and other slebs
My 6th form 90-92 there were a few out gay kids

Now I'm not saying that all was rosy, obviously. Section 28 was appalling. The hangover from hiv was there although I think injecting drug users were more stigmatised. And everyone saw it as a risk, it was really pushed that anyone could get it, and condom use was pretty widespread in my experience.
The 80s had really changed the scene I think. The Communards, Frankie, Kenny Everett on TV, Julian Clary, Marilyn, just in general the music, fashions and sexuality was much more anything goes.
Yes there was plenty of homophobia, as there is still, but I just find his painting of it as all doom and gloom a bit strong. There was optimism about the direction society was heading.

In fact just had a Google and seems the gay scene in Sheffield in the 90s was pretty good, I think that's where Owen grew up. Maybe he wasn't into clubbing.. who knows...

www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/topic/219521-the-old-sheffield-gay-scene-in-the-1990%E2%80%99s/

'One of the traditional central pillars of homophobia centres on the inability of same-sex couples to reproduce: one, because it makes them threats to the traditional family; and two, because it makes dangers to children. '

Did he forget about lesbians again? Oopsy. So easily done.

'The percentage who were deliberately conflating co-parenting with surrogacy '

I read a lot of the tweets and many many supporters of Owen thought it was about surrogacy. So that's an interesting take.

I suppose he didn't actually say what the plan was when he caught and impregnated some lesbians so maybe it's not surprising that quite a lot of his fans were confused.

'All of a sudden, in their world, cisgender women who cannot reproduce are no longer women'

Snidey little sod. The fact that not all women are able to get pregnant is the reason given for the big push to remove the word women from anything to do with having babies. Terms like gestators, birthing person should be used. Many charities and medical orgs have changed their terms accordingly. Up to and including the recent NHS page about getting pregnant, switching out women for people, and rendering their stats completely wrong. And etc and so on.

He must realise he's doing this, I assume?

' As it happens, I’ve written very few columns in support of trans rights — the last was December 2017 — and have never gone on to TV or radio to discuss it, because I’m cisgender and didn’t feel it was my place to do so. '

No problem for him telling women what to do and think though, is it.

'And it’s very obvious when a queer father co-parenting with a lesbian couple and myself are dog-piled by a cult which is obsessive and it is hateful. The gruesome truth is this: in 2021, in the here and now, there are all too many who simply do not think that LGBTQ people should be parents at all.'

Or, there are too many people who his post about hunting broody lesbians as both enormously dehumanising and hypocritical. He didn't answer any of the lesbians or gay men on his Twitter, many of whom said look I think you're a good guy but this is out of line.

So there you have it.

Pathetic.

@NiceGerbil

'The percentage who were deliberately conflating co-parenting with surrogacy '

I read a lot of the tweets and many many supporters of Owen thought it was about surrogacy. So that's an interesting take.

I suppose he didn't actually say what the plan was when he caught and impregnated some lesbians so maybe it's not surprising that quite a lot of his fans were confused.

It's irrelevant anyway - he was right behind Benjamin Cohen from Pink News when he was talking about using a surrogate (aka sentient human female) for his own needs, and OJ was joining in the chants of 'homophobic bigot' to anyone who objected.

So it's not like Owen Jones thinks surrogacy is any different?

He didn't answer any of the lesbians or gay men on his Twitter, many of whom said look I think you're a good guy but this is out of line.

Yes, I saw a few tweets along those lines, from people who are generally quite supportive of him but said that they felt what he said was disrespectful. He didn't acknowledge it at all. He is so right about everything that the only possible explanation for someone criticising him is because they are a hateful bigot who hates him.

What a plonker.

Jo Bartosch in Spiked:

www.spiked-online.com/2021/04/06/owen-jones-hunt-for-broody-lesbians/

Thanks for the link Arabella

The term hunted bothers me more and more.

I had a good rant about it earlier.

But FFS.

And yes I know he's gay. But that doesn't mean that he can say shit like this.

Men DO hunt women and girls. Women and girls are all too aware of that.

Sometimes they are hunted for rape. Rape and torture. Death.

Sometimes they are taken. And raped. And they have babies.

This phrase is just so fucking crass at any time. However we just had a high profile case where a man hunted and murdered a woman.

Men also stalk. They follow.

And too many, and I started noticing when I was going through puberty. TOO MANY look at you like an object, a thing they might want to have. That feeling of the up and down eyes, no looking at face, no humanness to it. No acknowledgement that you are a person. The way when I used to walk past a certain long term building site on my way to school the men would all go silent, stop what they were doing, and stare. Very scary. Looking back it's because I suppose it's a feeling like prey. A really primal fear.

And here he is glibly saying oh haha I'm going to hunt some broody lesbians.

And when everyone says wtf he's so no it's just a joke, a bit of fun, bantz. We've all heard that before haven't we.

And of course he's now saying that everyone is angry because he's a gay man and wants a co-parenting agreement like his friend.

But if he DID, then he wouldn't put it on SM like that. He would go and have a serious conversation with the couple he presumably has in mind about it. If he doesn't know a couple who have made noises along those lines then it's not going to happen is it. It's a situation that needs people who really know and trust each other.

But no. Hahaha I'm going to hunt some lesbians.

It's really bad.

@SpaceBatAngelDragon

Surely a transman whose sexuality is gay should be his preferred choice? And the only choice for someone wishing to support trans rights, and the reproductive rights of trans men specifically. No need for a co-parenting situation, they could be an actual couple. Why is he excluding trans men?

Spot on Spacebat!

Not sure about that- I mean he may not be able to find (hunt) a trans man who wants to have a baby with him.

Nevertheless we're told that lesbians can be male so he sure as fuck is being exclusionary, associating lesbians with female reproductive parts.

At the insistence of people like him, language for pregnancy, birth, breastfeeding, female cancers etc etc has been undermined / made debatable/ fucked around with.

He was a massive cheerleader for this.

And then he shits all over his own philosophy and when people say... Erm...

He says you hate me. Like a little kid.

I mean he's said a lot of shit but this takes the biscuit.

Male privilege reducing women's worth to their reproductive organs.
Again. And again.

Yes nicegerbil

Good posts.

Makes me think

Just having a browse in his Twitter.

I liked this comment

'You've crystallised something for me - it's middle aged woman gamergate/alt-right. Reductive, I know, but the radicalisation and sealioning are absolutely identical.'

Yes indeed. Middle aged women have a powerful voice on the internet. And are always front and centre when it comes to fascist efforts. As a whole, a very dangerous and violent group, middle aged women.

Suzanne Moore has written a great blog about this: https://suzannemoore.substack.com/p/owen-jones-and-the-twitter-baby?utmcampaign=post&utmmmedium=web&utmsource=copy